Coming out of the closet...

[Pete Buczkowski]

I've noticed a trend on the DG lately.  There are a lot of courses or architectural features that people are either: (1) afraid to praise because its unpopular here, or (2) afraid to criticize because its popular here.  

I was impressed by a post by Adam Clayman last month.  He posted a very favorable review of the New course at Grand Cypress even though it occasionally gets panned on here.  It contained a raw honesty with a nicely thought-out critique rarely seen on this board.  Of course Tom Doak isn't afraid to tell his own opinion, even if he likes hitting off astroturf.  At least you get his true feelings...or good jokes...whichever it may be.  

In the last 2 days I have seen comments on High Pointe and Couer d'Alene.  These are definitely taboo around here but I commend the posters who said they "didn't get" High Pointe and who enjoyed CDA.  

So what courses or archtiectural features do you like that are not universally praised on this board, or dislike but are GCA posterchildren...come out of the closet.  I'll start.  I like drop shot par 3's and hang time tee shots.  And I like munis.

[THuckaby2]

Pete:  great question, great topic.

So here goes:

I like every feature of every golf course ever built anywhere, to different degrees.

That ought to cover all taboos in here.

That also ought to surprise no one who's been around here more than a day.

 

But OK, I ought to be more specific.

* I like riding in carts.  They carry beer well.  They're also very fun to race.

* I like some courses when they aren't firm and fast.  It's fun to throw darts at greens.

* I like brutally-tight tree-lined courses, to some extent.  The challenge is fun, as are the recoveries.

* I like stroke-play tournaments and enjoy competition against a group.

Hopefully those are decent submissions.

But the sick thing is, postulate the exact opposite of each of those and I like that to.

I kinda love this game.

TH

[Mike Hendren]

I like trees.

I like Spyglass better than Pasatiempo.

I love the ground game but only the firm part of "firm and fast."

Bermuda grass is not a weed.

Green grass is just as beautiful as brown grass.

I like flat putts - they most readily expose my lack of talent.

I like my bunkers raked.

Wow Pete, this is liberating.  I'm out - and I'm loving it.

Mike

[Brent Hutto]

I like trees, both trees as a general concept and trees on golf courses.

Now are there golf courses with too many trees that would benefit from a massive removal program? Absolutely.

Do I think most courses are improved by tree-planting programs? Not necessarily.

But I do like trees. I love those tree-lined courses where we see the PGA Tour on TV like Westchester or the Ryder Cup at Oakland Hills. I even enjoy playing non-strategic holes where the only play available is to hit the ball two or three times down a corridor with trees along both sides, preferably with a bit of a dogleg at some point. I love that third green at the Ocean Course with two trees to play over or between on the (short-iron) approach.

Yessir, I like me some trees.

[EDIT] Corrected two typos.

[John_Cullum]

I like my putter cover.

[Brian_Gracely]

ahh crap....I thought this thread was going to be about Barney's cat  

[THuckaby2]

Great stuff, Mike.

As long as we are doing this therepeautic exercise...

I like Wild Horse better than Rustic Canyon.  But I like Rustic Canyon better than damn near every public course in Northern California, if not the other 48 states beyond NE and CA.

I love the ground game but like the fast part more than the firm part of that equation, and I like Pasatiempo better than Spyglass (today anyway).  Mike and I should not play golf together ever again.  

Bermuda grass kicks my ass, but I love it.  Thank you sir may I have another.

I think being a magazine course rater is HIGHLY over-rated... but only so by those who don't actually do it... and being a course rater in the course rating/slope context is highly underrated, and the most misunderstood role we ever discuss here.

I think organizing events for this group is a useful chore, but one that requires a lot of patience and an attitude less snippy than mine.

I think humor is wasted on those who don't want to hear it, advice I continually fail to heed.

To that end, I love the smileys and wish more people would use them.

OK, that's enough for now.

 

[Pete Buczkowski]

Pete:  great question, great topic.

So here goes:

I like every feature of every golf course ever built anywhere, to different degrees.

That ought to cover all taboos in here.

That also ought to surprise no one who's been around here more than a day.

 

But OK, I ought to be more specific.

* I like riding in carts.  They carry beer well.  They're also very fun to race.

* I like some courses when they aren't firm and fast.  It's fun to throw darts at greens.

* I like brutally-tight tree-lined courses, to some extent.  The challenge is fun, as are the recoveries.

* I like stroke-play tournaments and enjoy competition against a group.

Hopefully those are decent submissions.

But the sick thing is, postulate the exact opposite of each of those and I like that to.

I kinda love this game.

TH

Tom - I almost put in a Huckaby disclaimer but thought better of it at the last minute.  You really should have done the opposite and listed all of the things you don't like about golf courses...it is supposed to be a liberating exercise after all.  

[Kyle Harris]

I like Lookaway... go play it, it's fun.

[THuckaby2]

Pete:

I realized what a wuss I was being so put up another post with some better thoughts, emboldened by my hero Mr. Hendren.  Hopefully these are better.

 

[Jeff Fortson]

I like hole locations where you have to hit the ball away from the pin to get the ball close.  

I like hitting fades.

I like Pasatiempo way more than Spyglass.

I like Riviera better than LACC.

I like TOC better than Pebble.

I like brownish-green grass better than emerald green unless it's after a lot of rain and sun in Scotland.

I like short, strategic par-4's better than long, one-dimensional par 4's (and I drive the ball of decent length).

I love reachable par 5's with tons of risk/reward.

I like front hole location more than back hole locations (usually).

I like this thread.


Jeff F.

[THuckaby2]

Jeff:

Those are all worthy things to like, without a doubt.

Only darn near all of them are the standard GCA dogma.

Which of course is quite surprising coming from you.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I really like uphill par 3s.  I like to see the flag, but not necessarily the cup.

Ooh, me too!

The other members of my club are always aghast when I "admit" that my favorite of our eight one-shot holes is the one that's uphill, blind when the hole is cut on the left side to a shallow green and with a false front that will send any ball on the front six paces of the green rolling 40-60 yards back down the hill toward the tee. Heck, it's only 160 from the back tees and the OB stakes are at least 20 yards left of the green. Plus the hill behind the green blocks at least some of the prevailing headwind off the lake. What's not to love?

[Kyle Harris]

As the Rolling Stones sang, "I know, it's only Fazio but I like it!"

...err... something like that.

Frankly, I don't mind the CCFAD... they have their niche in this great market and tend to temper demand on the more "mass market" part of golf. Keeping cost at our hidden gems down to attainable levels.

[Bill Gayne]

I like customer service which includes the occassional bag attendant, locker room and shoe shine attendant, and beverage cart.

[John_Cullum]

I just bought new headcovers for my Perfect Clubs.

And Peter Kessler's son gave me a Perfect Club visor (and I have worn it). I guess I'm sort of on their staff now.

[Mike Hendren]

I like my putter cover.

Sarge likes his putter cover, Doak is okay with the astro-turf tee and Barney takes me to task.  So foul a day I have not seen.

Mike  

[THuckaby2]

I think the Perfect Club is indeed a perfect club. I just don't have the nads to actually use one and suffer the ridicule, no matter how much it would help my game.

 

[Lou_Duran]

Scary, I have 70-80% agreement with Jeff Fortson, but only 50% with Hendren.

Only those who putt on pure bent can attibute anything positive to the weed called bermuda.  

I enjoy many modern golf courses.

Fazio knows what he is doing, does it well, and will go down in history as one of the Top 10 architects ever.

Not all Classic courses are classic.

If MacKenzie was alive today, he would be teaming up with Fazio and maybe Doak to better cover the world.  He would also visit his courses more than once or twice.

If Colonial CC is in the Top 50 Classic, Ohio State-Scarlet is in the Top 25.

Firm fairways but receptive, mid-speed greens are more friendly to and enjoyable for the average player.

There are some fundamentals or formulas to good design.  Variety of holes is near the top of the list, as is balance.

I would rather have an interesting, strong, but otherwise manufactured hole than one that's bland and just used as a connector in a more quaint routing.

The maintenance meld is secondary to great architecture, but a course that is not maintained in accordance with its design will seldom be considered great.

No matter what is written and opined here, someone will surely recast it, misrepresent it, then argue passionately against it.

We tend to think we are part of a select group that "gets it".  For a variety of reasons, mostly insidious and dark, those who disagree with us obviously don't.    

[Kevin_Reilly]

I don't like using a caddie, and in fact I think the entire concept of caddies is outdated...a carryover from the time when the upper class had manservants or when bags weighed a ton and so did all the clubs in the bag.  When I walk (most of the time) I like to carry my own bag, which isn't a herculean task given the weight of modern carry bags.  Golf isn't like car racing where you need a crew helping you.

I also like uphill blind or semi-blind par 3's.

[Mike Hendren]

Scary, I have 70-80% agreement with Jeff Fortson, but only 50% with Hendren.

Lou,

I'm hardly surprised.  Like you I vote Republican.  In my heart, however, I'm still the same ole Yellow Dog Democrat who voted for Jimmy Carter - twice.

Kevin,

I agree about caddies.

[John_Cullum]

I played a pretty good Fazio over the weekend, Golden Eagle, Tallahassee FL

I think Michael Jackson is innocent.

[THuckaby2]

I've never voted for a Republican presidential candidate in my 20 years of eligibility.

I too think Michael Jackson is innocent.

I like Barbara Boxer.

I enjoy taking crap and being ridiculed by Gib Papazian.  It's been way too long since it's happened.

I enjoy taking crap from JakaB.  That happens all the time and it remains a test of my good nature.

I prefer Oakland to San Francisco.

I prefer San Jose to San Francisco.

I prefer any of these to Los Angeles.

If I could choose where to have been born it would have been Chicago.  That is as long as my parents moved me to CA at age 10 or so.

I sometimes feel guilt about off-topic posts.

This is not one of those times.

 

[Bob_Huntley]

Pete

Princes is a course I really like, but hear very little in the way of positive remarks on this site.  The ground has a lot of movement, much like TOC.  There is not a weak hole on the Dunes/Shore 18.  Granted, there are no great holes.  Steady golf with no pretensions.

Ciao

Sean

Sean,

Are you referring to MPCC?

Bob

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Terrific post - great idea!

You chaps based over there, west of the Atlantic, shoot down a few of our rising stars. Is Celtic Manor better than The Belfry?