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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« on: March 10, 2005, 07:07:55 PM »
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Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2005, 07:15:23 PM »
Does the Open count as a PGA Tour event? (I assume that's why the Road Hole is on there.) If so, that's kind of sad they could only come up with one hole from the rota to make the top 9.
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JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2005, 07:19:01 PM »
Not a single hole from Bethpage, Merion, Oakmont, or other great U.S. Open venues! That would seem to be a bit surprising. I wish these "Best 18" lists would take holes that had already appeared on every other list, such as Sawgrass #17 or #12 at Augusta. An "obscure Best 18" list would be original fun, and thought-provoking.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 07:20:17 PM by JNC_Lyon »
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"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2005, 07:47:59 PM »
Dan Callahan,

Yes, the (British) Open is considered a PGA Tour event, as prize moeny won there counts as PGA Tour winnings. If you review the list again, you will see the #9 pick is from Muirfield, so 2 of the 9 holes chosen are from the Open Rota. That is more holes than from the US Open Rota.

DT  
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2005, 07:50:40 PM »
Actually, #16 at Cypress should probably not be on the list, as that course has not been host to the PGA Tour in 20(?) years.
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David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2005, 08:46:21 PM »
I guess he puts a lot of weight on history because I didn't think that #17 at Pebble Beach was even one of the top five holes on the course.
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"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Brian_Sleeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2005, 08:55:15 PM »
Six are par three's, and all are on the back nine (four of them #17).

It's a TV-watcher's guide.
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Gerry B

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2005, 11:11:43 PM »
what a joke - should be titled the best holes for those who do not have a clue

I guess the best holes from such courses such as Merion, Oakmont,  NGLA, Pine Valley, Winged Foot, RCD, Ballybunion, Bethpage and Shinnecock to name a few were  not worthy of consideration.


He must have skipped some of the previous 16 holes at Pebble -in particular # 8 and headed to the tap room before stepping up to the tee box on 18.

At least the Golf magazine top 18 poll a few years ago had some holes that many on GCA would consider worthy and not on the tournament circuit

For those who missed that list here it is for comparative purposes:

Par 3's -  4 at Banff / 15 at Cypress - I would have picked 16 / 4 at NGLA / 17 at Sawgrass /

Par 4's - 11 at Ballybunion / 5 at Bethpage / 16 at Merion / 5 at Mid Ocean / 13 at PV / 9 at Royal County Down / 6 at Royal Melbourne West / 17 at The Old Course / 14 at Shinnecock / 12 at Southern Hills

Par 5's  - 13 at Augusta / 6 at Carnoustie / 3 at Durban / 18 at Pebble

verdict - game / set / match
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Danny Goss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2005, 11:36:12 PM »
Has this guy travelled outside of the USA (and Great Britain.. if he has even been there)?

If not, is he even "qualified" to produce a list? (assuming anybody is qualified!)
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2005, 12:11:47 AM »
Gentlemen-

I am certainly not defending the SI writer's choices. However in fairness to him, he does state quite clearly that he has chosen only from courses that have hosted a PGA Tour event.

That eliminates non-US courses (other than the British Open Rota) and Pine Valley, NLGA,  etc.

In addition, it is pretty clear (to me at least) that architectural design is by no means the sole criteria for his choices.

DT
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Gerry B

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2005, 12:21:29 AM »
Danny:

Irrespective of confirming his travel outside of the USA- judging by his list he hasn't even visited a couple of worthy candidates that are located  2 hours south of NYC in  Philadelphia / South Jersey.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2005, 01:20:04 AM »
David Tepper,

That's an interesting selection for the front nine.

One par 5

Two par 4's

Six par 3's ?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2005, 01:21:29 AM by Patrick_Mucci »
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johnk

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2005, 01:46:20 AM »
When these types of things come out, the first thing that strikes me is the vast yawning gap of architecture awareness between GCA posters and the typical golf fan.

We're so inured to lists that we naturally assume that a journalists "Best Golf Holes" list would actually be architecture oriented.

I think it's actually a case of a writer who couldn't think of anything to fill the space, and this idea saved his week...
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2005, 02:55:00 AM »
Gentlemen-

Again, read the writer's criteria for selecting these holes:

* memorable moments/shots (from PGA Tour events)
* difficulty
* asthetically pleasing
* psychological strength
* uniqueness

Clearly, the GCA component was not a major factor in the writer's selection. My guess is that his impressions of these holes  was based primarily upon watching the PGA Tour events on TV from his couch (just like the rest of us!).

In addition, the writer did not portray his selections as a attempt to assemble a "dream 9 holes" that would produce a par 36 or so.

To me, the preponderance of par-3's is understandable. By their very nature, par-3's tend to produce the most dramatic, challenging and memorable golf shots of any round.

As I said before, those are probably not the same 9 holes I would pick. But if I was going to make an 'apples to apples' comparison of my list to the writer's, wouldn't I be obliged to use the same criteria he does?

DT  
 

   
 
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Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2005, 03:05:34 AM »
I think his choices are a okay.  I mean there are no clangers in there.  They are all good holes.

Brian
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Patrick_Mucci

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2005, 05:30:02 PM »
David Tepper,

What PGA Tour events are held at Cypress Point ?
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David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2005, 05:38:16 PM »
Mr. Mucci-

If you make the effort to READ my prior post, you will see I raised the same question earlier on this thread. However, if you then make the further effort to READ the SI writer's column, you will note that part of his criteria is that the courses he is choosing from "must have hosted at least one PGA Tour event."'  Cypress Point does pass that test.

DT
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2005, 06:01:23 PM »
Is the back 9 available somewhere? I didn't see it listed or linked.

Any person that does not list the 10th at Riviera has zero credibility with me. It's the #1 hole on Tour outside of the majors and it's only peers to me are the Road Hole and ANGC #13.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Andy Acker

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2005, 06:04:14 PM »
maybe the most recognizable but bar far not the best. Number 18 at Pebble for example
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Gerry B

Re:SI's 'Best Golf Holes in the World'
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2005, 01:06:17 AM »
so lets go with his courses that have hosted a pga event  criteria:

where is the representation or consideration for  the following US / PGA  courses at a minimum:

Merion
Bethpage
Winged Foot
Oakmont
Southern Hills
Pebble - at least 3 other holes should be considered over his pick of #17

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