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Michael Plunkett

Williamsburg in March
« on: February 25, 2005, 10:42:13 PM »
Heading to Williamsburg in mid March. For a little under 300 dollars, 2 nights in a Fairfield, we picked three courses, Kiskiack, Royal New Kent (or Stonehouse- I picked RNK) and Williamsburg National. The three were picked to stay in a budget.  Any changes in courses give or take a few dollars?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2005, 10:39:52 AM »
Michael:

If you want to save about $100, drive an hour to play my Riverfront GC course in Suffolk, reviewed here.  It's just over the bridge/tunnel on the west side of Norfolk & Newport News.  It may be overrun with houses now [I haven't seen it in five years], but it's one of the best sets of greens and bunkers we ever built, they have an excellent superintendent, and the green fees are in the $40-50 range.  It would be a great contrast to Royal New Kent.  And I'd love to hear how it's looking; no one ever goes there except the locals who play it all day and night.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2005, 12:26:27 PM »
Tom -- our family vacation this year is to Kingsmill, so I am definitely going to try and get to Riverfront!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Michael Plunkett

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2005, 02:24:31 PM »
Michael:

If you want to save about $100, drive an hour to play my Riverfront GC course in Suffolk, reviewed here.  It's just over the bridge/tunnel on the west side of Norfolk & Newport News.  It may be overrun with houses now [I haven't seen it in five years], but it's one of the best sets of greens and bunkers we ever built, they have an excellent superintendent, and the green fees are in the $40-50 range.  It would be a great contrast to Royal New Kent.  And I'd love to hear how it's looking; no one ever goes there except the locals who play it all day and night.

How can I not !!   ;D

Sounds like a field trip too.  Anyone want to take the trip?   I'll bring the camera.

see it here:    http://www.riverfrontgolf.com
« Last Edit: February 26, 2005, 02:26:11 PM by MichaelPlunkett »

blasbe1

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2005, 09:38:30 AM »
Mike:

I'd ditch Williamsburg National and add the Golden Horseshoe, Gold Course.  If budget is an issue Stonehouse may be more affordable than the Golden Horseshoe, and SH is a clearly a notch above WN.  Enjoy, I think Williamsburg could be the most underated US golf destination.    

blasbe1

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2005, 10:10:34 AM »
Alex:

I actually much preferred the Woods course over the River at Kingsmill.  Although I heard they lost a ton of trees in one of the recent hurricanes.  The green course at the Horseshoe is v.good but lacks any real classic feeling, especially compared to the routing and green complexes at the Gold course.  

I too much prefer RNK to Stonehouse, but I'll almost always favor a links style over a parkland.  

JKB

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2005, 06:41:03 PM »
I just got back from Williamsburg, had a great time, five courses in two days.  I would recommend the New Kent, Stonehouse, Kiskiack combo.  The starter at Kiskiack told me they were just bought by the guys who own New Kent and Stonehouse so package deals with those three courses should be pretty good.  If it is similar in price I would recommend substituting Brickshire for Williamsburg National.  

Tom D:

I played Riverfront two weeks ago, it really is overrun with houses now, they are building new ones all over the back nine, but the course is still good.  It was is in good shape considering how cold it was, those greens are great when they are fast and firm or in my case frozen!
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JBergan

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2005, 06:56:28 PM »
Michael:

If you want to save about $100, drive an hour to play my Riverfront GC course in Suffolk, reviewed here.  It's just over the bridge/tunnel on the west side of Norfolk & Newport News.  It may be overrun with houses now [I haven't seen it in five years], but it's one of the best sets of greens and bunkers we ever built, they have an excellent superintendent, and the green fees are in the $40-50 range.  It would be a great contrast to Royal New Kent.  And I'd love to hear how it's looking; no one ever goes there except the locals who play it all day and night.

I made the trek from NJ to VA Beach to visit my sister last summer, and while there I drove over to Riverfront.  I played in a downpour, had the whole course to myself on a Saturday afternoon (green fees and cart $35). I agree with the architect's opinion about the greens and bunkers.  I enjoy green that 1. make you think about where to hit your approach and 2. give you options when you miss the green, and Riverfront's greens did both.  Not to take away from the other holes, but 11-15 is a super stretch of holes.  

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2005, 09:43:25 PM »
Alex,

I concur on Bay Creek. I really enjoy the front nine. How's the Nicklaus course coming along?

wsmorrison

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2005, 08:41:27 PM »
Maybe Bill Gayne will have some insight.  Does anybody know of a golf course built by the Rockefeller family in the mid to late 1930s in Williamsburg?  We have records that William Flynn went down there to search for some land for a golf course, I believe for visitors and not intended for a private family course.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2005, 09:40:39 PM »
Wayne,

The course was planned in the late 30s directly behind the Williamsburg Inn. Colonial Williamsburg Foundation which operates Colonial Williamsburg, Williamsburg Inn and Lodge, and Golden Horseshoe golf courses was established by the generosity of the Rockefeller family. The plans were shelved in 1941 when the United States entered WW II. A nine hole course was eventually built in 1945-1946 designed by Fred Findley directly behind the Inn on land now occuppied by the Golden Horseshoe Gold course and Spotswood course. You can still see parts of the original Findley course but you need to know what you're looking for. There's plenty of pictures of the original course. I'll ask around if there any records at CW or William and Mary of work done or correspondence with Flynn.

The efforts to preserve Colonial Williamsburg began in the mid 20s which was the same time that the Yorktown CC and Yorktown preservation efforts were beginning. Colonial Williamsburg and Historic Yorktown is only about 11 miles apart. I don't know how much of a rivalry there may have been at that time. From an October 1926 newspaper clipping about the Yorktown CC, "Joe Fuller, a former assistant professional at Hot Springs VA., on recommendation of John D. Rockefeller, Jr. who with Mrs. Rockefeller, frequently had played under his direction, has been made golf professional at Yorktown."

By the late 30s the YCC land had been sold to the National Park Service.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2005, 10:12:48 PM by Bill Gayne »

wsmorrison

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2005, 05:46:56 AM »
Thanks, Bill.  I knew you'd be the man to track the story down.  Of course there is a commonality between Hot Springs, Yorktown, Rockefellers and Williamsburg.  Flynn!
He designed the Cascades, redesigned the Old Course at the Homestead, designed the Pocantico Hills course at the Rockefeller estate in Tarrytown and did preliminary work of some kind for a golf course in Williamsburg. Very interesting.  It is evident that the Rockefellers really appreciated Flynn's design ability and his personality.

Thanks for checking your VA sources.  I'll check further at the Rockefeller archives in Tarrytown to see if there's additional info on the proposed golf course in Williamsburg.

As always, your help is most appreciated!
Regards,
Wayne

Michael Plunkett

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2005, 01:30:09 PM »
Thanks everybody. We are all set. The two pros from Dover (still love that flick) are set to play Royal New Kent on Saturday, Tom Doak's Riverfront on Sunday (still need a tee time there) and Kiskiack on Monday.  

We are looking for a place to play on Friday as we head down from Philadelphia in the morning.  Hope the snow is gone.


thanks everybody.  Thanks Tom.


mp

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2005, 03:03:53 PM »
Michael,

I would suggest driving down route 13 on the Eastern Shore of Virginia and playing at Bay Creek in Cape Charles. It's currently snowing in Yorktown but there's no accumulated snow on the ground. I would be surprised if we have any more accumulating snow this winter. Ask to see the new Nicklaus course at Bay Creek I'm curious as to how it's coming along. Plus if you drive route 13 you avoid all DC/Baltimore traffic.

Wayne,

I'll keep you posted.

Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2005, 04:29:15 PM »
I played Bay Creek three weeks ago.  The Palmer was very impressive.  The front nine of the Nicklaus course is pretty much done, but the back nine doesn't look very close, you can see a few holes of the Nicklaus course when you are on the 13th of the Palmer.  They still have a lot of work to do if they are going to make that late 2005 opening date.  
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Michael Plunkett

Re:Williamsburg in March
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2005, 09:17:51 PM »
Michael,

I would suggest driving down route 13 on the Eastern Shore of Virginia and playing at Bay Creek in Cape Charles. It's currently snowing in Yorktown but there's no accumulated snow on the ground. I would be surprised if we have any more accumulating snow this winter. Ask to see the new Nicklaus course at Bay Creek I'm curious as to how it's coming along. Plus if you drive route 13 you avoid all DC/Baltimore traffic.

Wayne,

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the tip- I'll check it out. Sounds like another road trip. With NJ losing public courses, it's good to know what is out there.
I enjoy back roads much to the dismay of my wife and friends. And I love rt 13.  Feels like 1950's all over again.

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