[Brian_Gracely]

No, I'm not talking about the speed bumps on the entrance road
 to Rustic Canyon...I'm
talking about the small greenside humps that seemed to be
present in many golden age courses but don't really seem to
exist anymore.  Sometimes they were off the green, and
sometimes they were integrated into the greens.  

Are the small humps too difficult to maintain, or did members just
become overly frustrated by them, or has the aerial game just
made them irrelevant to modern designs?
   
Here's a few examples:

#4 at The Old Course - Small mound fronting the green


#2 at Pasatiempo - small mound to the right-front of the green


#17 at CPC - small mound to the front-right of the green


Walton Heath (New) - integrated into the green


Here's an example of it being done on a new course:
#5 Green at Friar's Head



Is this still being done elsewhere today?  Even if the aerial-game
 has taken over (at least in the US), wouldn't it still make sense
as a feature on long holes to challenge recovery shots?

[Pete Lavallee]

Brian,

Nice photo of Walton Heath . The mounds you've shown,
other than the one on 14 at TOC which is really significant,
seem to be hand done. Architects who spend a lot of time
on site, like C&C, TD, ect, seem to employ these more often
than the mass producers. Would I like to see more of them,
you  bet! Hopefully the downturn in golf course building will
convince architects to spend more time on site, buffing it out,
with details such as these; we can only hope.

[Kyle Harris]

Though not a newer example... an example where one is part of a newer course that has been revised and the feature was kept...

Now, if they would only shave the humps around the green and put the fairways back out to the bunker...

Tenth Hole - PSU White Course


Oh, and get rid of the Pines  

[Kelly Blake Moran]

The problem is you're not playing the right, modern courses.

[BCrosby]

Couldn't agree more. Small mounds in the right place can turn a mediocre hole into a great hole. Why they aren't used more often is beyond me. They are (i) easy to build, (ii) easy to maintain, and (iii) very effective at creating shot options.

My favorite is the mound left front of the 8th at ANGC. It makes the hole.

Bob

 

[Mark_Rowlinson]

They're great - as long as they look natural.  I hate artificial bumps which are introduced to, say, a fairway when there aren't any in the surrounding ground.  They look like pimples on an adolescent face.  We have a number at Conwy.  Sure, they're effective, but they look so unreal.

[David_Tepper]

The new Metropolitan GL by the Oakland Airport has a good number of humps (and hollows) integrated into its greens. They are entirely man-made without looking too artificial.  Depending upon where the pins are located, you can wind up with some VERY interesting chips and putts.

[SPDB]

Brian - There is a great greenside hump that has been reintegrated into the green complex at Merion #14 (pictured below). They mow it and the surrounding areas at fairway height. With the recent length added to the hole (they tee off from the a small recontoured patch on the putting green), it creates an interesting feature when the pin is back, either helping to get the ball to the hole, or repelling it down into a chipping area (or worse, onto Golf House Rd.). This pic doesn't really do it any justice, but I offer it anyway.



*Picture courtesy of Carlyle Rood (www.golfarch.com).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

I brought this topic up several years ago.
Perhaps one skilled in the search mode can find it.

I too, like greenside humps.
They form a very useful function from a tactical and playability perspective.

If I had to guess as to the cause of their demise, it would be maintainance issues, especially with the advent of the riding mower.

My thought would be to shift them rather then eliminate them if the club felt they were a maintainance issue.

Doesn't Turnberry have a neat greenside hump on # 18 ?

Your picture of Friar's Head didn't appear to show greenside humps as much as it did wavy topography.

[JESII]

Brian - There is a great greenside hump that has been reintegrated into the green complex at Merion #14 (pictured below). They mow it and the surrounding areas at fairway height. With the recent length added to the hole (they tee off from the a small recontoured patch on the putting green), it creates an interesting feature when the pin is back, either helping to get the ball to the hole, or repelling it down into a chipping area (or worse, onto Golf House Rd.). This pic doesn't really do it any justice, but I offer it anyway.

I've not been to Merion in 5 or 6 years, was the left bunker removed?

[gookin]

In 2002, Fox Chapel Golf Club restored a series of small mounds on the front right side of our 7th green protecting this 290 yard driveable par 4.  They were  removed in the 1940's in favor of a bunker. These mounds are about four feet tall and create a blind second for any tee shot not positioned properly.  These mounds are also kept as rough and next to impossible to run a shot through. A ball that must be played from these mounds requires the player to navigate some interesting lies. They are a poor mans version of the Alps hole and were part of Raynor's original design in 1925. We are happy to have them  back.

[Mike_Cirba]

I've not been to Merion in 5 or 6 years, was the left bunker removed?

Yes, JES, some here would say that all of the bunkers have been "removed", replaced by the strange forms you see in the pic above.

Specific to your question, however, someone determined that since the bunker wasn't there in 1930, it shouldn't be there today.  Makes sense if you're talking "pure restoration", but I'll bet a million dollars that an ugly, incongruous hump wasn't there in 1930 either.

[Kyle Harris]

Mike,

According to the routing plan by William Flynn in 1930 found in Forrest Richardson's book on pg. 327 there wasn't a bunker on the right side either, but there are features (perhaps mounding?) on either side of the green right up against it.

I don't see anything similiarly shaded or dileneated on the routing plan... so who knows?

However, looking at the aerial in Shackelford's Golden Age...

The right side bunker is there and judging by the angle from the one on pg. 68... there is some type of mound there...

[JESII]

Thanks Mike,

Have there been any other modifications, other than length, that you can think of over that same time period?

Jim

[Mike_Cirba]

Jim,

Yes, the "second" greenside bunker left of #7 has been taken out.  

Some really fugly pot bunkers have been placed in the driving zone of number five, protecting balls from going into the creek, I guess?!    Ostensibly, they existed for about five minutes in 1930.  

On the plus side, a hell of a lot of trees have been removed, including those impinging the quarry on 16, as well as those between 11 & 12.  That's the good news.

The bad news is that they have to grow Santa beards on the white faces of Merion to make them look anything like the rugged character they used to naturally exhibit.  

[SPDB]

Makes sense if you're talking "pure restoration", but I'll bet a million dollars that an ugly, incongruous hump wasn't there in 1930 either.

Mike - I'll be a gentleman and only take your house, instead of sending Jimmy Bagadonuts out to break your thumbs.

[Tom_Doak]

Pacific Dunes has some great ones:  the second and fifth greens come immediately to mind, but nearly every hole has some scale of contour that would qualify ... that's the nature of links golf and why it is so interesting.

On the other hand, I find it difficult on some properties to include that kind of contouring because it doesn't fit in with the scale of the property.  At Cape Kidnappers, for example, a little hump would look like a zit on the landscape.  It would be easier to do on a parkland course if you designed some humpy bunkers and chocolate drop mounds in other places.  But the second course at Stonewall is the only parkland site where we've had a client who appreciated that look.

[Doug Siebert]

I don't think they are outdated due to today's aerial game.  They can still act to hide the bottom of the flagstick depending on its location, which always adds a bit of uncertainty to the shot.  They also add some uncertainty as to where one ends up if your aerial shot is hit a bit short of the mark for whatever reason.  If there's a bunker there, I know that a miss short puts me in the bunker.  If there's a mound there, and one side will kick me somewhere good and the other side will kick me somewhere quite bad, its a lot more dicey than just "so long as I don't bury in the lip I still have a good chance at par if if I come up short".

The problem is that most courses in the US don't believe such humps and bumps have their place on the course unless they are covered with rough and generally out of the ideal line of play.  That kind of hazard has its place in the game, but it should be balanced with shaved bumps that are in or quite near to one's direct line.  But that violates some people's sense of "fairness" to have a shot that's straight at the target but just a bit short taking a 90* bounce to the left into trouble, since "fair" for these people dictates it either bounces forward and leaves a putt, or at worst gets slogged up in the muck of the overwatered frontage and they can LCP it for an easy up and down chip.

[DMoriarty]

Brian, aside from the above mentioned speed bumps, RC has greenside bumps on more than a few holes.   Some of the more prominent ones . . . left of the first green, , right of the old seventh (RIP), front of 11, front of 13, behind 14, short of 16, and right of 17.  I wouldnt be surprised if more popped up here and there.      

[TEPaul]

Perhaps one of oddest and most famous humps within a green was the famous "pimple" placed somewhat right rear on the 18th green at PVGC. It was over two feet high and not very broad at the base. It apparently was a controversial feature and eventually longtime PVGC czar John Arthur Brown had it removed. Some may've said that was too bad to do away with such a remarkable original feature and others certainly said "good riddance".

It would be interesting to know if Brown just thought it was too much or if he actually looked in the archives and read the "remembrances" of Crump's two close friends at PVGC both of whom mentioned Crump intended to remove the hump. Both implied Crump put it there temporarily to penalize recovery of players who sliced the ball accross the green. If Brown read these accounts he apparenlty didn't notice or agree with what both Carr and Smith said Crump was thinking of doing in place of the "pimple" which was to put a 'heavy roll in its place extending to the right rear of the green'.

Carr and Smith's "remembrances" were apparently not done together but independent of one another. They both mentioned the same thing on this green. Should PVGC now create Crump's idea of a 'heavy roll from where the "pimple" used to be extending to the right rear of the green?

[JohnV]

The 5th green at Hannastown has a nice little hump right in the front of the green:



For a green that has no bunkers around it, this hump does a nice job of protecting the center hole locations.

[JESII]

Commonwealth National outside of Philadelphia has a similar hump at the front right entrance to the 6th or 7th green. I like the concept, but this one in particular is lacking because a bunker guards about 2/3 of the front of the green and there is a pond about 20 yards short, so the people that are bouncing the ball in from just in front have a very good chance of there ball being deflected somewhere bad. Poor implementation of a good concept in my opinion.

[Doug Wright]

Pacific Dunes has some great ones:  the second and fifth greens come immediately to mind, but nearly every hole has some scale of contour that would qualify ... that's the nature of links golf and why it is so interesting.

Tom,

When Brian posted this thread I quickly thought of the solitary hump in front of 10 green at Pacific Dunes. I gotta think that's manmade, but it's quite effective--the green would look naked without it...

[Tom_Doak]

Doug:

I've got to ask Jim Urbina if that contour on #10 green was man-made or not.  I honestly can't remember.  There are a bunch of humps out there well in front of the green that are natural, but we built up the green on #10 by several feet, and I can't remember if the hump in front is the top of what was a larger hump before.

[brad_miller]

There is a great knob right in front of the 11th green at Prairie Dunes, picture can be seen on the GCA course review. Normally this whole plays downwind making it a great ground game whole forcing one to play for a small slot to the right of the knob.

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