What's the best run muni in the USA and why?

[Joel_Stewart]

From the Harding Park thread, got me thinking about what muni would be the best run and  how do they do it? The city of San Francisco runs their muni courses with union park & recreation employees who are free to transfer to other non golf jobs as they wish.  The city takes millions from the golf courses to fund other projects.  They do sub out the management to Kemper or Palmer.  As a result, they must be the one of the worst citys to run a golf course.

Any examples of munis that are well run?

[Kyle Harris]

How do you define "Best Run?"

I am sure there are a few dog tracks out there that are very well managed...

Or is it up to the reader to decide?

[Mike Nuzzo]

Memorial Park in Houston.
Average round is right at 4:00 hours and always full.
I think they run in the black and fund other city parks projects, or at least take care of the rest of Memorial Park.
cheers

[RJ_Daley]

I've never been to the RTJ trail in Alabama, nor Bear Trail in Tennessee.  Aren't those completely state owned and managed?  I have no idea about their efficiencies, playing quaility day to day, nor return of funds to the state coffers.  Just wondering...

My home course, Brown County Golf Club in Green Bay, WI has not run a deficit in the decade I have been here.  They provide qood quaility for reasonable fees, and return excess funds to the county pot.  What more can one ask of a muni?

[JNC Lyon]

Oak Hollow, High Point, North Carolina.

Golf Course is preserved for enjoyment of the players.
Conditions are acceptable but not excessive in maintenance.

All off-course operations are very low-budget, so as not to distract from the course at hand (i.e. no expensive clubhouse or decorated entrance.)

[Mike_Sweeney]

Village Club of Sands Point, formerly a 9 hole course now 18 redesigned by Doak. I have not played it, but they certainly have the tax base.

http://www.villageclub.org

[peter_p]

Mike S,
What about the long commutes between 3/4 and 4/5. And they were grousing about Pacific Dunes!

http://www.villageclub.org/clubfiles/753/images/coursemap.jpg

[Sean_A]

I would think Montrose or Carnoustie would be in favour for many people.  I really like how Carnoustie does it.  Quite reasonable rates compared to other Open venues (though it still should be a damn sight cheaper).  They have good day ticket rates and you actually get to use a members' club for a meal etc.

I know these are not quite municipals, but near enough.

Ciao

Sean

[Jason McNamara]

I've never been to the RTJ trail in Alabama, nor Bear Trail in Tennessee.  Aren't those completely state owned and managed?  I have no idea about their efficiencies, playing quaility day to day, nor return of funds to the state coffers.  Just wondering...

RJ -

The TN courses are managed by an out-of-state company.  The courses are pretty good, but none is terribly close to any metro area.  I'd have to think the RTJ courses do far better.

I was impressed with the Twin Lakes complex (36 holes)  in Virginia just SW of Wash DC.  I believe it's operated by the county (Fairfax, iirc).  Good conditioning, $30 for the weekday round, and a good hamburger afterwards.

Jason

[Steve Lapper]

I have to cite Bethpage as an example of a very-well run (post 1999) muni complex.

Granted, it is easier to look at the complex post it's selection for an Open, but it always appears to me that Bethpage has gotten the job right of managing throngs of public golfers across multiple courses with a pleasant-enough experience and principle of using at least a good portion of the attraction and proceeds from the Black Course to maintain and upgrade the remaining facilities.

I don't know enough of the cash flow intracies to accurately judge the macro effect of Bethpage within the NYS recreation department, but the place seems to run better each year I visit.

Another example of a good muni would be the Aspen Muni. It is well run, efficient and profitable, enjoyable and a very strong community asset that permits the less-than-billionaire population ample access and preference.The course, already in a difficult maintenance environment, has little, if any, in the way of great architecture, but it does a great job of presenting marvelously sloped, tricky, and lightning quick poa annua greens that defend the course and make the day challenging.

IMHO, it is often the simplest,well-run, yet partly-elegant(views and greens) Muni (like Aspen's) that works the best.

[Steve Pozaric]

So far, post renovation/redesign, Forest Park in St. Louis appears pretty well run.  The course remained in surprising good condition last year relative to years past and pace of play improved.  Conditioning is especially notable when you consider the course is in the midst of a park that is used by people who do not realize that it is a golf course (e.g., you might run across picnicers on some holes (usually in the rough at least)).  The physical facilities (clubhouse) are well organized and well stocked.  Pace of play seems much improved as well.  This year will be a telling year for the course.

On the pro shop, I do need to add that I called a few days later and one of the employees was EXCEEDINGLY helpful.  I told him for what I was looking, he described some options with regard to a couple of shirts, bag tags and a ball, and shipped them to me for a fee of only $10 (I believe that was shipping too) and no sales tax.


Amazingly, I also find myself in agreement with Steve Lapper regarding Bethpage.  Although I have only played there once, I was amazed at how well organized the place was and how smoothly things went.  I will admit to being disappointed by the conditioning (I played late last spring when they had a number of temp greens due to the bad winter weather) and the fact that the pro shop closed surprisingly early.  

[A_Clay_Man]

If as a muni, the qualification is that the public can play it for a fee..?

There's only one answer.....


Shadow Creek is the best run Muni in the world.

[Steve Pozaric]

Adam:

I would add the other qualification for a muni:  owned by a muni - a municipality or other governmental agency.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Steve- You mean MGM is not a governmental agency? I'm shocked!  

Ok, if that's the case I'd vote for a place I have never been to, Dick Daley's home course. Brown Co? something or other.

Dick really needs to write-up and diseminate the successful transition to their enterprise fund and how to avoid the abuses of so many other municipalities.

[noonan]

Blue Ash in Cinci.

[Dan Herrmann]

When I lived in Portland, I liked the way the munis were run - Heron Lakes, Eastmoreland, and Rose City.    They also had a course called Progress Downs that wasn't in Portland, but it was always overcrowded.  

I think they recently redesigned Progress Downs and renamed it.

[Nick Pozaric]

If as a muni, the qualification is that the public can play it for a fee..?

There's only one answer.....


Shadow Creek is the best run Muni in the world.

muni is run by the city, daily fee is open to the public but privately owned

[Mike Hendren]

Due to their proximity to metropolitan (a relatively term down South) areas, primarily Birmingham, Huntsville, Montgomery and Mobile I'd guess the RTJ trail does substantially more rounds per course than Tennessee's Bear Trace.  Both appear to be well-managed.

The RTJ Trail is experiencing a surprising creep in fees.  I was quoted $75 per round w/ cart on an April Friday at Birmingham.  

The Bear Trace suffers given no multiple courses at any locations and some extremely remote locations - notably Chickasaw and even worse, Ross Creek.  I understand the management contract for the Bear Trace courses is up for renewal soon with rumors that the "return" has failed to meet projections.  

[Jay Cox]

How about Cog Hill?
I've never heard anything negative about management from people playing there, and it's been a great success both in terms of providing quality golf and making it financially.

[TEPaul]

What's the matter with you people? Nobody's mentioned Pebble Beach! It's hands down the best run muni in the world!  

[Dan Herrmann]

Pebble Beach?