Have wealthy American golfers slowed the growth of the game?

[Steve_ Shaffer]

The "wealthy" have NOT slowed the growth of course development. As mentioned, 60% of new course development is residential. How about this:

MONTANA’S SPANISH PEAKS ACHIEVES RECORD-BREAKING SALES OF $23 MILLION IN ONE DAY

Fast Sales Continue in Big Sky Country
BIG SKY, MONTANA (AUGUST 23, 2004) – Now the most successful real estate project in Montana history and the fastest-selling ever in the West, Spanish Peaks sold more than 150 parcels valued at $23 million in one day in August 2004. To date, the resort has sold $100 million worth of homes and home sites in just nine months.

In addition to its real estate offerings, Montana’s newest premiere private community is the gateway to ski-in, ski-out access on some of the world’s best ski slopes, world-class fly fishing, a private, signature Tom Weiskopf 18-hole golf course and all-season outdoor amenities including horseback riding, white-water rafting, hiking and biking.

The weekend $23 million sales included reserved home sites equaling $10 million and luxury cabins totaling $11.5 million. Home sites ranged from $400,000 to $765,000 while 12 luxury cabins were priced at $1.1 million to $1.9 million. Current sales figures for the entire project now approach $100million for 2004.

Home site prices have now increased to a current level ranging from $400,000 to just under $1 million. Owners can also purchase refundable golf memberships for $60,000 including unlimited play for family members and refundable Club social memberships for a $35,000 refundable deposit with access to all Settlement amenities, including a clubhouse with a dining room, bar and lounge, the Lodge’s restaurants, spa and fitness facilities, pool and hot tubs, children’s programs, equestrian facilities, fly-fishing outfitters and ski lifts access.

Peter Forsch, president of Spanish Peaks commented, “We are thrilled that our opening season exceeded our sales goals. Brisk sales have continued as buyers recognize the value and legendary private heaven they have discovered in Montana. That’s exciting for everybody.”

[Matt_Ward]

Hey Paul:

In reading plenty of the literature coming from such groups as the NGF you get the distinct impression that golf is only in a short "slump" and that everything will simply right itself out.

That's not the case at all.

The industry is shrinking and frankly I don't see any reason to support that it will change anytime soon.

The major groups are in the process in creating PR attempts through First Tee and Hook a Kid on Golf but the impact of these laudatory programs is nothing more than "show" rather than "tell."

The reality is quite simple --

Course owners / developers went on a spending spreee for more courses because of the NGF and now they are holding the bag. It's easy for them to then blame muni golf as the big time culprit for their problems. That's a bait and switch tactic pure and simple.

The other reality is something Peter Hill spoke about. Today's Generation "X" and "Y" don't view golf and their leisure time in the same manner as the baby boomers and our parents before that. I agree with Peter that the impact is much more profound and needs to be studied without a dependence on old and outdated models.

Golf takes up too much time through the 18-hole model. There are a number of unique distractions that can easily be put in golf's place for young people -- I'm frankly amazed at the vast number of young people who play video games and the like. I'm 47-years-old and when I was a kid growing up in a mixed blue and white collar town it was unheard of if you didn't play games / sports with neighboring kids for much of the year. Today's kids are not following that same pattern. Witness the obesity and overweight issues today versus yesteryear.

Golf needs to understand the culture of today and how the game can fit the lifestyles of those today -- not the other way around.


Steve:

It's easy to ID a few particular gated communities and say look at their sale numbers. Those are isolated instances and frankly in a country as big as the USA it's not uncommon for people with money to sell out certain golf communities because of their uniqueness / location / offerings, etc, etc.

[Kyle Harris]

This could be a shameless plug, but it's apropos.

I am working between the Boy Scouts of America and several private golf associations and companies in the hopes of creating a golf program for our local scout camp. My hope is the program catches fire and ideally becomes a national thing.

The Boy Scouts do have a Golf Merit Badge (The only badge tied to a specific sport), and I am designing a program based on the badge and also open program for anyone in camp during the week. The camp I work at has roughly 6,000 kids come through it over the summer.

To me, this is positive exposure... I would be providing instruction, equipment and facilities to a dozen merit badge students a week, and countless others during open program areas. I also hope to help provide direction should interest take hold. Our particular camp is attended by PA and NJ residents primarily, with some Maryland troops as well. One troop comes from Michigan.

So this is pretty far reaching in effect.

Now to raise the funds....  

[Tom_Doak]

To get back to the title of this thread, I don't believe it's architecture which has caused golf to become more expensive, I think it's the increasing expectations for golf course maintenance.

New courses cost a lot because everyone's construction standards are so high.  USGA greens = $500K.  Self-contained drainage in every fairway = $750K.  State-of-the-art irrigation system = $1 million to $2.5 million depending on the climate; that's $25 a round right there!  Wall to wall cart paths = $300K or more.  None of these have anything to do with DESIGN as we talk about it on this board; it's all about the standard of maintenance people expect from a new golf course in the modern era.

The problem is that the expectation is so costly to build that most courses will fail financially with this model.  But there aren't many developers or architects out there who will consciously lower their standards to make the course more affordable, because their egos are on the line.

On the other hand, there are plenty of affordable golf courses in the USA ... they are just older courses which were either built for peanuts, or were acquired out of bankrupcy for 40 cents on the dollar.  Those who bemoan the lack of affordable golf are too busy rating the brand-new money pits to look around at what else is out there.

[PThomas]

Matt -- you make many good points...I think your last line about golf understanding the culture of today is very good

Kyle:  good for you!!  My three daughters are in Girl Scouts, so maybe they could do as well...

Tom:  the increased maintenance expectations are really ridiculous, esp for "beginner" types facilities, etc....I understand that even The First Tee facilities are built to a really high level:  why is that necessary?  it's the challenge of the game, its peace and quiet, the surroundings, etc..that are important...Jeez, when I first started playing when I was 15 my friends and I used to take our clubs on 2 Chicago buses ("oops, didn't mean to almost knock you down there, Ma'am!) to go play 9 holes at a Chicagp Park District course
that was POORLY maintained, had rubber mats for tees (I used to have to bite my tees in half so the ball wouldn't be teed up too high!), etc...then of course we are using more water, etc... then we add in the ever-lengthening courses....

Tom, I've been reading many old threads and don't recall reading any of your thoughts re the distance issue, so I was wondering if you could share your thoughts re if the ball should be scaled back, etc.

lack of perfectly maintained facilities is not why the game is stagnant now, IMHO

it's kind of scary if the powers-to-be in golf still don't get it.....

[JakaB]

Those who bemoan the lack of affordable golf are too busy rating the brand-new money pits to look around at what else is out there.

If I wasn't a butt boy before I am one now....I'd like to see the people on this board refuse to pay for or accept a comp at any course that charges more than $100 a round....lets just say for the month of July...we'll call it independence month....note: $100 is a simple goal cause after we do it once next time it will be $50..

[Mike_Young]

Guys,
I still don't think people realize how many golf courses are out there that are doing ok.  Golf is a sport/game that relies on people within a 25 mile radius to survive.  And not many people outside of that radius know of these courses.  But these places bring in 400,000 to 1,000,000 dollars a year and do well.
 Many of these places see only one or two R7 drivers per week.  Pro V's??? maybe if they were found somewhere else.  We just don't hear of this market.  
Take Knight Golf in Michigan, if I remember correctly these guys buy more grips and more shafts than any other golf manufacturer and most of us have never heard of them..but go to KMart or Walmart or Costco....see whose making the $20 putter and $80 driver.  But go to the PGA show and ask other golf companies and they smirk when you mention Knight.  You think the owner cares???  Hell he just bought Orlimar to give it another shot and I bet he makes it work.
Not all marketing is done on a National level.  It would be a mistake.
Do you think the best Restaurant in Athens Ga is Olive Garden or Red Lobster in Bloomington, Indiana.  Nope most of us will never know  and the same goes for golf.
Golf is alive and well but the fat is being cut and the fat cats are fighting.
Some of the same people you will see promoting golf courses for $2million at different development conferences were telling people it could not be done a few years ago and that anyone doing so was irresponsible???  Who looks irresponsible now??
JMO

[Mike_Young]

John,
Amen...
Also we need a new rating class "Best profitable golf course" under $50 and above...   and base it on golf revenues not real estate or hotel sales etc....it would be an interesting class.

[Mark Brown]

Many good thoughts. As my partner and I try to build innovative and cost-effective types of courses, facilities and programs (12 hole, 6 hole etc.) we need all the ideas we can get.

I agree with Tom D. that developer and member egos are part of the problem.

We will be trying to tap into markets like women, families, couples and kids, and help them get a running start involving teaching and price breaks.

Matt -- you're right, we need to look at the lifestyle and mentality of today's kids who want to be constantly stimulated as they jump from one game to another and don't accept our values and social behavior.

A psychologist just told me that a lot of kids are taking light schedules in college now so they have time for games and parties. They just figure they'll spend 5 or 6 years in college.

These kids aren't buying into our way of living, including our work ethic. And they want no part of our stuffy and regimented actvities. They may want to play in jeans and
flip-flops...the light bulb just lit up -- talk to you later.  

[Mark Brown]

Mike,

I like that idea of rating most profitable courses!

[David Lott]

It's a function of land cost vs. population vs. affluence. In Wisconsin, where I used to live, land is still pretty cheap, the population makes a good living at most levels and there's lots of good, affordable golf--just tons of it really. In the low country of sc, where I've moved, the land is still pretty cheap (except on water) though getting more expensive, except for the retirees, the income base is much lower than in Wisconsin (leading to less players who can afford it and less political pressure and tax base for muni golf). Result: lots of courses but pretty expensive and aimed at the affluent retirees. In heavily developed areas (cities, high end  resort and retirement) land is expensive and the golf correspondingly so.

There are probably exceptions but this is the general rule. It's a brave developer that bucks these trends.

Have wealthy golfers slowed the growth? Depends on where you live.

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