Rye grass...?

[TEPaul]

I'm not much up on some of the differences in grasses but it seems to me that a good many of the "purists" in architecture, particularly some of our more purist architect friends on here are not big at all on the use of rye grass, particularly in the Northeast or the East coast. I remember a number of years ago we at GMGC were thinking to regrass our fairways and we got Merion to lend us the famous Dick Bator to come over to GMGC and give us a little lecture/education session on our various options. Dick went through the bents and after a while someone asked him about the use of rye grass on our fairways. I could see the color starting up his face and he said. That f.... rye grass...." and then he realized there was a lady sitting behind him and he stopped and said...."Oh, excuse me maam!"  

Anybody know why that may be about rye grass? Would it be aesthetic, agronomic, playability or maybe a bit of each?

[RE Blanks]

I know I would rather hit the ball out of rye rough than bermuda.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Gray Leaf Spot targets rye, it is prevalent in the Northeast, and it is very, very expensive to treat with chemicals.

Rye is less tolerant to heat and drought as well.  

[A_Clay_Man]

I particularly like the clumps of seeded rye in the fall. Their colors and textures are phenominal.

I suppose it's a regional thing, disdained in the NE.

[Joe Hancock]

I would love some input of anyone who has had the testicular fortitude to use the newer perennial rye's as the dominant turf on fairways in the midwest, or in arid climates that might not be conducive to the grey leaf spot epidemic. I like how quick it establishes, it is very traffic tolerant, and the newer varieties mow very clean.

Has anyone done rye(predominantly) in the upper midwest?

Joe

[Sean Leary]

Here in the NW, bent fairways and rye rough seems to work well on the newer courses being built.......

[Steven_Biehl]

I think ryegrass is not given the respect that it deserves.  It is always looked poorly upon because of gray leaf spot.  Gray leaf spot on ryegrass is bad in warmer climates.  But, gray leaf spot on ryegrass in no worse to control than dollar spot on bentgrass.  In northern climates, where gray leaf spot is not a problem, I think ryegrass would make a great fairway turf.  It is a bunch-type grass, so you won't get the thatch build up that leads to the soft conditions like one could expect from bentgrass.  It is very quick to germinate, has great color, and can be mowed low.      

[TEPaul]

I'll tell you one interesting rye fairway story in the Northeast. In the incredible horrible anaomolie winter of 1994, Philly Country Club was about the only course in this district that had straight rye fairways. For six weeks in the winter of '94 the temperature basically never got above freezing with many layers of snow. Into late February there started a series of rapid thawing and refreezing cycles and rye being the non-creeping puff-up type of grass it is got to puffing up with thawed water, refroze a couple of times which basically blew it all up and killed every leaf of rye grass on the entire course. What a mess that was. The bents in the area survived that crazy winter pretty well. So Philly Country had to regrass the whole place and decided never again to risk that kind of thing with rye grass fairways.

[Steve Curry]

Tom,

Thanks for reminding me!  

I was at Hominy Hill that year and have never seen so much dead grass before or after.  I remember kids that lived near the course skating.  Yeah I know, big deal, unless you consider they could skate on greens, tees, fairways, rough... everywhere salt hadn't been applied.

At my divorce hearing, coincidently after that season the judge asked what I did for work.  I told him and he responded, "You had a lot of problems over there last year, what happened".  Nothing like a swift kick to the ribs when you’re on the ground.


Steve

[Mark Brown]

I agree that Bermuda grass fairways and roughs are my least favorite option. The ball sinks down in the rough so it's hard to find your ball, then it wraps around your hosel when you swing.

On Fairways unless its full and lush your ball also sinks to the ground and there's little margine for error with iron play. It can also cause havoc around the greens if you need to hit a flop shot, as it can be hard to get under it when it sinks.

[paul cowley]

Rye is the dominant grass below the Mason-Dixon, at least for five months or so [Augusta being the top rye venue].
....but we do use bent for greens most of the time....with all the above being played on top of bermuda.

....which can piss the bermuda off at times let me tell ya, and I've been to a few of the therapy sessions....not pretty.

[patrick_burton]

Treating grey leaf spot on rye is very, very costly -- much moreso than dollarspot, IMO. Plus, grey leaf spot can overtake a course within a few days -- dollar spot is slower, and more of a "cosmetic" problem. Grey leaf spot is "holy sh*t" i have no more turf problem.

Newer strands of ryegrass actually have actually been developed with an endophyte with resistance to grey leaf spot. the turf is great - relatively versitile in mowing heights, stripes well, and is cheap -- courses here in phoenix overseed with it every year.

drawbacks would be that it can't really be mown too closely, usually not under 1/2" if it's the dominant turf -- so it can't really be used a facility mandating "tight" fairways. It also doesn't cut well -- the tips of it are usually a little rough,  especially if mower blades are a little dull.

-patrick burton

[TEPaul]

PatrickB:

An endophyte??

Whad dat?

[patrick_burton]

an "endophyte" is essentially an organism that lives within a plant that inhibits diseases, pests, etc. from attacking the plant.

offhand, i'm not sure which cultivars have the grey leaf spot resistance.

-patrick burton

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