Donald Ross

[John_Conley]

Spiderbite:

The world knows that NY (Westchester, Long Island, upper New Jersey) has a lot of great golf courses.  They don't know that Minneapolis and Saint Paul do too.

Philadelphia has great golf, with much of it from Flynn.  Massachusetts is long on Ross.  I was not commenting on the depth of work from these architects, and that's why the point is valid.  Thompson did one course, ditto Tillinghast, etc...

By sheer size - you are comparing an area of more than 25 Million people to one with 2.5 Million - New York probably wins any such matchup.  But can you easily drive from one to the other to play 36 in a day?  Some of the courses you mention would be hard to get to from each other, so it is up for interpretation.

Imagine you want to sample different architecture styles.  Were you aware it could be done so easily in the Twin Cities?

[Rick Shefchik]

John Conley,

I'm under the impression that Seth Raynor also designed Midland Hills in St. Paul. Am I off base on that one?

[Jeff_McDowell]

Rick,

Midland Hills is considered a Raynor course as is Minnesota Valley.

[John_Conley]

Jeff's right.  Not sure if he's seen it, but I think Bahto considered Minnesota Valley a pretty bad Raynor design.  You will notice the Biarritz green on a par 4 when it would seem to have worked better on old #2 (I think they switched nines.).  He told me that may indicate that someone else worked on it in the field.

Midland is as well, but I don't think I'm off base when I say I'd suggest seeing Somerset first.

[Paul Richards]

I've mentioned this before, and, frankly, am surprised that no one has commented on it.

A friend tells me that the chairman of their master plan committee thinks that "all this restoration stuff" is just a passing fad.

[Mike_Trenham]

TEPaul -

I here that your renovation started this week and that for fun Mike Smith took the greens down a bit further each day.  At what point on the stimpmeter did the greens reach the point of being out of control?  I heard that they had passed 13.0 as of Saturday.  My guess is that 11.5 is about as fast as is reasonable.  1, 7, 14, 15 are the only ones that would be okay beyond 11.5.

Again, another interesting thought on Ross. When you think of the other Ross courses around the country it seems to me Ross's inventory is undergoing restoration at a rate far and away faster and more extensively than any other architect!

Donald, me boy, it seems like they spent about 50-70 years taking your courses apart and changing them and now within about half a decade they're all trying to put them back together again as fast and extensively as possible!

Very interesting. There's no doubt about it--restoration--Ross restoration anyway has definitely formed a critical mass.

Sorry about the Perry Maxwell changes to your holes at Gulph Mills though! There're definitely staying. The undeniable fact is his redesigns are far better than your original designs on those holes!

[Steve Pozaric]

I thought I would jump in:  Over the labor day weekend, we are taking a mini-vacation and I will have my first chance to play a Ross course at French Lick.  I am excited about that.  For an opposite experience, that will likely be followed up by a round at Valhalla that I am also looking forward too.  My only other remotely related experience was the Ross tribute course at Boyne Highlands last summer (it just did not seem to flow).  

Of course, after the golf part of the vacation, I get to do penance by visiting Brown County and all the antique stores.

St. Louis does not seem to have the variety of storied architecture of other cities for some reasons.  We have 1 Macdonald/Raynor, Some RTJ and several old, turn of the century courses designed by the Foulis Brothers who did okay work.

Steve Poz

[TEPaul]

Mike Trenham:

I too heard that Mike Smith speeded the greens up bigtime before closing down. I wish I'd seen that but I haven't been over there in a few weeks.

Last Monday they started the restoration and the first item  was gassing the greens. No one is supposed to go over there while the greens are being gassed, not to use the practice range--nothing!

[Scottish (Guest)]

My father joined Washington Golf and Country Club when I was 17 years old.  I had no interest at the time in golf, and always played the obligatory once a year round with him.  Now that I have gotten into the game, I realize now, what a remarkable course we have at Washington.  It is located in Northern Virginia, five minutes from D.C.  It is also the oldest gofl club in the state.  (1894)  Donald Ross' design measures about 6100 yards from the back tees.  When I tell my friends this, they laugh it off as if they are going to have a field day.  Only after the 18 holes and more money in my pocket do I get the last laugh.  I consider myself fortunate to have a Ross course three minutes from my home.  His ideals and priciples concerning course design have lasted through time, it will humble and amaze golfers for years to come.  As far as I am concered, you can have your Fazios and Dyes.  I'll be very content with my 6100 yards of Ross for the rest of my golfing days.

[frank_D]

dear -1

as a student focused on ross i have a question for you

is hollywood beach golf course in hollywood florida a donald ross ? and if so is the current tract identical to the original ?

thank you