Least Best Hole on your Home Course

[peter_p]

Nomination #1 is the 16th on the North course at the Reserve Vineyards.
    Bob Cupp built a great redan green here, but completely forgot to put in complementary topography. The 185-220 yard hole is fronted (and righted) by a 8 foot depression with close shaved banks which is kept wet enough so golf balls can't bounce onto the green.

[THuckaby2]

All except numbers 11 and 12 at my beloved Santa Teresa.  Those are good golf holes.  The rest are holes only a devoted player could love.

OK, maybe 16 is good too - it is a fine par 3.  But the other 15 holes all can meet the requirements of a least best list.

 

[peter_p]

Huck,
That's why you're the best America's guest. No specific negativity. Look for a package on the Kootenay Rockies.

[wsmorrison]

Peter,

In all honesty, that is very hard to do at Rolling Green.  It is a solid golf course 1-18.  Maybe nothing that will completely blow you away, but a great collection of individual holes in a terrific routing progression.  

The hole that is furthest from its potential is what I'll consider the least best hole.  This is the  7th hole, a downhill par 5 (in essence intended to be a 4.5 since it has 3 very difficult holes that follw) that is problematic due to tree encroachment along nearly the entire right side of the hole.  It also should have the MorrPaul bunker but knuckleheads like Mike Malone are messing it all up    He may be on Tom Paul's Valentine's list these days but he ain't on mine

[THuckaby2]

Huck,
That's why you're the best America's guest. No specific negativity. Look for a package on the Kootenay Rockies.

Well I do try to accentuate the positive.  
And I would love that package... I mean golf trips are one thing, but making this COUNT for the kids - and my wife and I - is on a higher plane of priority.

Thanks.

TH

[wsmorrison]

Slowly but surely that hole is improving its tree issues.  One tree on the right that effected shots from the back tee is gone, the one next to it should have been felled, maybe soon; it sure is ugly as the branches were raised and now it really sticks out.  I have wished for years that the trees in the right corner of the hole would be removed and the stream exposed more--20 or so big trees need to go.  That is one of my favorite holes anywhere, it requires a demanding tee shot, approach shot and putt.  It is not perfect, but can be improved easily enough.  If I put you on a short leash, I'd even give you the chainsaw  

[ForkaB]

The 8th at Aberdour is at the center of the RENOVATION of the course that took place in the 70's.  It's 465 from the tips, curving around a shallow bay of the Firth of Forth with old WWII gun emplacements, Queen Margaret's Abbey on Inchcolm Island, an LPG terminal, sailing boats at high tide and the City of Edinburgh spoiling the view.  The drive must be long and straight, either drawing off the right hand bunkers or cutting over the dry stane dyke between the fariway and the sea.  The second shot, usually a long iron or wood, is to a tiny green cut into a side hill and hard to hold when playing fast and firm, even with a wedge.  There is a burn at 320 or so which makes the shivas' of the world think of the 2-iron stinger off the tee..... . Most people hate this hole.  I, of course, love it.

Try as I might, I cannot think of a "least best hole" on my other home course........

[THuckaby2]

Try as I might, I cannot think of a "least best hole" on my other home course........

Oh come on you homer - it's as plain as the nose on your contrarian face.  It's not a BAD golf hole and is fun in a lot of ways... but the least best hole there is #16.

Damn I may have cost myself the good will of Peter P. with that bit of negativity.  I sure hope not.  Remember what I said about it not being a bad golf hole.  

[peter_p]

Tom,
Unfortunately for the kids, the package is only golf, picked up at our golf show. I did circle Grand Forks and Republic.

[THuckaby2]

Tom,
Unfortunately for the kids, the package is only golf, picked up at our golf show. I did circle Grand Forks and Republic.

Well that helps also. A happy golfing Daddy means a happy family.

 

[ForkaB]

Try as I might, I cannot think of a "least best hole" on my other home course........

Oh come on you homer - it's as plain as the nose on your contrarian face.  It's not a BAD golf hole and is fun in a lot of ways... but the least best hole there is #16.

Tomster, I was thinking of Cinnabar Hills, and they don't even have a 16th!  Have they let you too close to the chemicals at Clorox yet again?

[THuckaby2]

Oh yes, my bad, of course I should have remembered that one can take the man out of San Jose, but cannot take San Jose out of the man.

 

[peter_p]

Redanman,
Re: #11
I'll be in Philly for the family reunion Oct 12-16, and will extend for golf. JvdB may head over if the golf is afterwards.

[Brent Hutto]

Probably the second hole on the "Garnet" nine (which is the front nine when played in tournament order). Par 3, plays about 200 yards from the tournament tees, 190 yards from the men's tees and 160 yards from the senior tees to an almost flat green by University Club standards. Big greenside bunker front left, almost vertical hillside from the left fringe down to the fairway on another hole, maybe 30 feet below green level. Shallow bunker behind the green.

Most of the left side of the hole is a long, narrow waste bunker and left of the waste bunker is a steep hill into lost-ball territory. There is a 20-yard wide area of grass (and the other tee boxes) along the right side with cart path in the treeline the length of the hole pretty much aligned with the right edge of the green. One tall oak tree kind of leans into the edge of the line of play about 50-60 yards short of the green and I'll swear the branches will reach out an extra three or four yards to snag any ball played too close to the right side.

There is an area of right-to-left sloping fairway-cut grass where shots that are short will end up if they aren't far enough left to catch the waste area or bunker. Also a shallow chipping area between the right side of the green and the cart path to catch sliced righty shots if their distance is right. The problem is that from the tournament or men's tees it's just a matter of hitting a club you can carry 170-odd yards into the prevailing breeze (and slightly uphill) to a huge green. If you play it from the senior tees you don't even have the challenge of distance as it's less than 150 to the front of the green and you don't have to go over the waste area.

Definitely the least interesting of the five one-shotters on our tournament 18.

[ed_getka]

#11 at Stevinson Ranch, a par 5 that I find terrible, but Gib assures me he will explain its virtues to me. Its okay off the tee, but then the second shot has to thread a needle, and I mean the eye of a needle, with wetlands left and bunkers right, with about 15 yards in  between. Otherwise you lay up with a short iron, and play a midiron into the green. Of course long hitters can probably easily get home in two, but I'm not one of those.

My other home course is Rustic Canyon, and there I would choose #15 par 3 with its standard fare triple tier green, and too much shrubbery stuff on the left that takes away the possibility of some interesting recoveries.

[peter_p]

Ed,
#11 sounds eerily similar to #4 at the OGA course in Woodburn. Sometimes I am tempted to drive into the left lateral hazard, take an opposite side drop on the 5th hole
and play on, avoiding the whole bottleneck area, Par is still possible. Looking forward to solving it at KP4.

[Tom_Doak]

At High Pointe, it would be the 18th hole, whose demerits have been much discussed.  Suffice to say, it's the only water hole on the course, and the water comes into play a lot [it got a "10" hazard rating from the GAM committee who did the slope rating].

At Crystal Downs ... hmm ... I guess it would be the 18th hole as well, because the dogleg is much too severe from the middle and forward tees, there's a lot of long grass to lose your ball on the inside of the dogleg, and the second shot is a bit uphill and difficult to judge.  However, I would back the 18th at the Downs in a fight against any other hole on this thread.

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   Sorry if this has been asked before but what is the story behind #18 at High Pointe? Did the owner want a specific hole or were there environmental considerations?

[John Kirk]

At Pumpkin Ridge, the clear choice is the seventh at Witch Hollow, the private side.  560 from the blues, about 625 from the blacks.  There is some debate whether the hole was originally intended to be a double dogleg.  The rumor is the owners wished to keep some beautiful specimen oaks on the right side of the fairway, which straightened out the last 250 yards of the hole.  The second shot is much too exacting, requiring a long iron or wood to the left half of a narrow fairway.  Otherwise, a punch shot is required under the oak trees.  Even the green is canted to accept balls from the right, where the fairway should be.

In addition, players in the seventh fairway are in danger from hooked tee shots off the eighth tee.  Rarely is "Fore!" exclaimed at Pumpkin, but here it happens regularly.

[Doug Siebert]

This is actually a pretty good question to ponder.  I was trying to answer this for my home course and I think some of my biases may have been showing when I did so.  First off, by the Doak Scale my home course is a 7, though there is no question of it being worthy of any more than a 6 were it located on Long Island or some other place with an embarrassment of architectural riches.

But it doesn't have any really obviously weak holes that just don't work.  My mind was drawn to the 5th hole, a rather nondescript straight 368 yard par 4 without a lot of challenge.  But I wonder if my bias towards challenge is doing me wrong here, as its role, if I looked at the big picture in terms of the flow of the round, is to comprise the opening of a three hole stretch that really provide your best birdie opportunities on the course (save the other three other par 5s which are almost always one's best birdie chances on any course)  Heck, the 5th could become really interesting in another 5 or 10 years if the USGA doesn't do something about the ball as it'll become a driveable par 4, the only one on the course!

Now worst hole on the four courses in the area I frequent, that's easy.  When one expanded from 9 to 18 a year ago they did some redesign on the front to make it easier since it was too tight.  They had to get rid of an interesting but pretty dangerous 90 degree dogleg right 330 yarder because the people who lived in the house in the dogleg apparently got sick of balls hitting their roof.  I never tried that shot, it was pretty crazy since you had a totally blind drive over a forest with no reference points to aim at and had OB on three sides around the green!  They cut it into two holes (they'd changed the first to play to the #2 green to protect another house in a dogleg)  The second of the two holes they split into is a 115 yarder to a featureless green, with houses on both sides and a road behind.  Not a good "reminds you of TOC" road, but a road that's elevated above the playing surface with a tunnel to get you to the next hole.  Damn, is that one ugly hole.  I just had a thought that it would instantly be massively improved if they totally redesigned the green and put some crazy swales in it so it isn't just "hit your dart up close and see if you can make the putt" hole.  Maybe I'll suggest it to them, though I doubt they'd listen as the green would have to close for months to do it.  During that phase, with a hole playing 80 yard from the tips to a temporary green, it might be in the running for least best hole in the state!

[James Bennett]

I initially thought this was a simple but strange question.  However, it is a great question to discuss with fellow members.  We all talk about our 'good' holes, some want to talk about 'signature' holes (I assume they mean memorable holes).  But what about our 'not as good as the rest' holes.

I then started to compare my course's 'not as good holes'  with those of nearby clubs.  Thats also interesting and illuminating!

When deciding which was my 'not as good as the rest', I became confused.  There are two sharp dog-leg par fives which, for the average golfer, comprise a miserable drive (too tight), probably a 100 yard second shot (to avoid the trees) then a third to a green surrounded by bunkers, from about 150 yards.  However, for a single-figure player, the holes can be quite good - a testing two shotter.  Note that the original design was a two-shotter, but they were lengthened by some 50 yards to become a par 5 (or worse for the lesser player).

So, I changed my mind, to a shorter par 4 hole with excessive trees, limited real choices for all players, and the green generally uninteresting.

The actual hole is unimportant here, the thought process is the key outcome.  The question is an excellent one when identifying the courses 'weaknesses'.  A great 'brainstorm' assister.

[Ted Kramer]

#8 at Pine Hill doesn't do much for me.
It is a pretty pedestrian par 3.
180 yards slightly uphill.
Not a bad hole . . .just my least favortie.

-Ted

[mike_malone]

 I would nominate #4 at Rolling Green as the least best. The tee shot has lost much of its allure because trees were planted on the right. I want to congratulate those who espouse those trees. You got your wish--golfers are properly punished for missing right ,but the fun of playing a downhill shot out of the rough to an uphill green is gone(for the great majority of players). So, the "hazard" that was there originally is now gone, replaced by an impenetrable line of evergreens. Interestingly, the original design called for planting trees farther up the hill on the right. These should be planted.

[TEPaul]

Peter:

"Least best" seems to be more than a bit of a contradiction in terms. In my mind "best" always refered to "one". But I guess the modern art of golf course rating and ranking has become a lot more mathematically or numerically sophisticated than that!  

[JohnV]

At Hannastown, it would probably be #8.  This is a straight 603 yard par 5 with not much too it except for an interesting green complex.  It just takes two or three good long whacks to get to where there is much interest in the hole.

[Tags:]

Tags: