L-O-N-G Holes - Par 3, 4 and 5

[Chris Kane]

The National (Moonah) #16 is 490 yards.  A joke when played into the wind.

[Bryan Izatt]

My home course, St Andrews Valley in Aurora, Ont. has 3 par 5's on the back nine that are 605, 624 and 615 from the tips.  To add insult to injury the 18th is a 486 par 4.  Of course, only the fools play from back there.

Longest par 3 I've seen was at Stoneybrook in Ft Myers FL, #14, 274 yds.  Almost all forced carry over water.  An Azinger - Lewis design.  I didn't play it - I can't carry it that far.

Best long par 3 I've seen is the 8th at Uplands in my neighbourhood at 232 yards, designed by Stanley Thompson in 1922.  Tee is elevated 50 feet, a wooded ravine to carry to a shallow green built into the opposite side of the ravine.  Must have been a real chalenge for anybody at that length in 1922 or even 1962.

#6 at PGA West Stadium is aptly named "Amen" at 255 yds to a peninsula green.  I don't think they even played it that length at Q-School back in December.

[Doug Siebert]

A course in town just added a second nine, the new 9th is a 245 yard par 3, dead flat, playing into the prevailing wind, with OB left, and water long, short right and right.  So far I've only got pars and bogies on it, but I haven't played it on a day when it is playing into a really strong wind -- though since the left portion of the green is elevated, at best flat and perhaps slightly falling front to back, I tend to more fear a day when it plays with a 25 mph wind.

Longest par 3 I've played is 255 yards, long par 4 is 499 yards, longest par 5 is IIRC 677 yards.  None at elevation, or at least not above 1000 ft.

But the longest hole I've ever played is Prestwick's 13th, Sea Hedrig, played into a 40-50 mph wind and icy daggers of rain, in the days before Ti drivers and Pro V1s made such conditions easier (not "easy", but a hell of a lot easier than they were in 1991!)  That 460 yards sure seemed like a half mile!  Not only was the par of 4 a joke, even making it a par 5 would have seemed quite fanciful on that day.  If that followed the GC of Ill. hole Shivas posted about, I might rethink my position on technology in the game

[Adam_F_Collins]

Lots of long holes - which is great, but how do you all feel about being faced by such long holes?

Personally, once a hole reaches a great length, I start to feel a bit defeated before I start. I'm not a big hitter, so some holes are just plain out of my reach.

How do you react on the tee of these brutes?

[Tom Jefferson]

There is a newly built, not yet open for play, par 3 on the Oregon coast that is over 255 yards, slightly uphill, that accepts a running shot quite nicely.

Tom

[Doug Siebert]

Adam,

Why should you feel defeated by the length?  Par is just a number, playing a long par 4 into strong wind that makes it unreachable for you isn't any different than playing the same hole in the same conditions listed as a par 5 instead.  If you aren't a long hitter, you shouldn't expect to be able to reach everything, particularly if you play the back tees or in challenging conditions.

I hit it pretty far, and can't really recall being in a position where a hole was unreachable in regulation for me, even from the tips, due purely to distance or terrain without some help from the elements -- assuming reasonably good shots of course.  But though I'm not used to it, it doesn't really bug me if I face a long par 4 into a forceful wind that makes it hard or impossible for me to reach.  Same thought process as a par 5.  Seeing that its a par 4 doesn't give me the ability to call up an extra 40 yards on my tee shot to make it reachable, so I can't really worry about it.

Sometimes it can help, if you can't reach it anyway you might be less inclined to hit driver off the tee and more likely to keep it in play.

[ed_getka]

I don't know about the par 4's and 5's, but par 3 is Barona Creek #3 at 260 yds as Andy mentioned. It doesn't play nearly that long (probably more in the 200-220 range given the firm conditions). I had the pleasure in the first King's Putter of watching John Bernhardt come inches from acing it, with a beautiful demonstration of the ground taking the ball to the hole after John hit a great shot.
Andy,
   Did you play #4 from the back? What did you think of the hole, particularly the drive?

[Andy Doyle]

Ed:

Based on your recommendation, I did play Barona Creek from the back tees.  I normally wouldn't have done that - over 7,000 yards is a bit long for me, but I'm glad I did.  It's a great challenge from the tips.

#4 is a cool driving hole.  That center bunker is very deceiving from the tee.  It's hard to tell how far away from you it extends, and the visual is complicated by the bunker on the far side of the fairway that is directly in line with the left half.  When you see the green way over to your left, you are loathe to play way out to the right of that bunker.  You stand on the tee and think "there's no way I'm hitting way out over there (---->) when the green is way over there (<-----)."  It basically shames you into challenging the hazards.

My decision-making was complicated (for me) by lack of knowledge.  I walked, which meant I didn't have use of the GPS on the carts, and they do not have yardage books in the pro shop.  I think this was one of the tees that was set back where the carts couldn't get too close anyway, so the GPS didn't give exact yardages  - what I was looking for was carry yardage for portions of the bunker and carry yardage to that left portion of fairway.  This is where playing this course a number of times would come in handy.

I didn't know if I could carry it to that left fairway area, so I tried to carry it straight over the right half of the bunker.  That bunker is deeper than I thought & I wound up in one of those islands of brush in the middle of the bunker.

It would be nice to play this hole a number of times and try some different strategies off the tee.  I would also be much more confident of trying to make that left area of the fairway from the gold tees (6590 yards) - this is more in line with the distance I usually play.  From the back tees there were a couple of holes that I just barely made the drive across the junk to the fairway - e.g. #13.

A great course, and a great day.

Andy

[ed_getka]

Andy,
  That is just why I recommended playing the back tees at Barona. Just for the experience of #4 off the tee. Move up like most golfers do and if you are of moderate length the tee shot becomes a no brainer.
   And whats this wanting yardages stuff, thats cheating!
Glad you enjoyed it, I look forward to my next round there.
   BTW, what did you think of the short par 4 up the hill (#13?)?

[Andy Doyle]

Ed:

Isn't that #14?  One of my favorite holes on the course.  From the tee it is just a great looking hole - you're looking up the hill, nice bunkers, huge rock outcropping on the right.  While it is somewhat visually intimidating, there's a decent amount of fairway room up there.

I hit driver - I didn't think this would get me in trouble from the back tees.  Pushed it a little bit, but found lots of room to the right - drive ended up in the fairway just short of the upper right fairway bunker, leaving SW into the green.  This left me a wedge approach, but blind - I couldn't see the flagstick, much less the green surface, but it was fun hitting it then running up the hill to see how close it got (not very, but made par).

Nice green contours.  Guy I was playing with hit a poor drive short left, but his approach hit the front of the green & then curled around with the contours to within 2 feet.

AD

[Scott_Burroughs]

As far as par 5's, Scott B.'s home course Wake Forest G.C., has a lengthy opener -- 711 yards. Nothing like taking that one on out of the car cold. To make it even tougher, there is a creek cutting across the fairway about 180-200 yards from the green. The last 170 yards or so are straight up hill.

Yep, that's my longest par 5 played, hundreds of times.

2nd longest yardage-wise is #18 at Kapalua (Plantation) at 663 yards, played just 3 days ago, but it's a ski slope downhill, not playing nearly as long as #9 at Rolling Green mentioned by Wayne above.  #1 at WFGC still plays longest of them all.

Longest par 4 yardage-wise is 501 yard 16th at Po'ipu Bay, home of the Grand Slam of Golf, played 4 days ago.  It's downhill, downwind, so there are countless holes that have played longer than that one.

Longest par 3 was #4 at Barona at 260, but the back tees were closed when I played there.  #13 at Nicklaus' Hokuli'a on the Big Island of HI is 258 form tips, 253 where I played from next tees up 11 days ago.  Straight downhill, so still just a long iron.  #12 at Dunes in Myrtle Beach from tips at 245 is a full 3-wood, but the longest-playing par 3 is easily #10 at Rolling Green at 243 slightly uphill, also mentioned by Wayne above.

[Top100Guru]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the par three #11 at Winchester, an Old Ross Gem in Mass......that holes plays 250+ from the tips and into a mounded well protected greensite. Did I mention that when a stiff wind is in your face, you might not reach it with a driver? Great Hole!!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

Par 3    #17 Galloway National at 249 yards. One of Faz's best.

Is that from a tee installed after the golf course opened ?[/color]

Par 4    #10 Hidden Creek at 476 yards and second shot uphill. Lots of fun with a breeze.

Ridgewood's 7th east is the same except that it's uphill all the way, whereas you get a little relief on the last 20-40 yards at Hidden Creek[/color]

Par 5    #16 Pine Tree at 666 yards. Played PT for the first time last week. A great track, but #16 is a bear with a 30 MPH in the face.

As difficult as # 16 can be, I find # 5 much harder, even though it's only about 620 from the tips.

The prevailing wind is in your face at # 5, the green is substantially smaller, about 1/2 to 1/3 of # 16 and better guarded by surrounding bunkers.  The prevailing wind is with you on # 16.

The second and third shots require more precision and the drives might be about equal with the 16th getting the nod.

As an opposite example, # 13, at 130 yards, plays more difficult downwind versus into the wind.

What day were you there and who did you play with ?
Sorry I missed you.[/color]