Warren Golf Course at the University of Notre Dame (Photos)

[Michael Kim]

I haven't had much time to make contributions to the website due to my studies. But I have finally found some time. These photos were taken earlier in the Fall. It's about a 15 minute bike ride from the Golden Dome (the center of campus) to the clubhouse. I've gotten some really interesting looks by students on campus and cars driving by. Imagine a 6'5" guy with golf clubs on his back on a bike. Silly, but hey, I've got to play and do whatever it takes to play. Enjoy the photos.




This is the first hole. Notice the number of small bunkers that have the rustic look to them. I think Crenshaw and Coore put these bunkers in place more as a way to frame holes than to actually be penalizing features since the land is so flat and featureless. The bunkers do give the course something to look at.




The 2nd Hole. I always found it a tough driving hole because you definitely have to cut the ball to keep it in the fairway. The green is pretty tough to hit because it's long and narrow too.




The 4th Hole. Shortest par 3 on the course at 135, but it plays much longer since it's uphill.  It's a devilish hole with a bunch of humps and bumps in the green.




This is the big bunker guarding the right side of the par 5, 5th hole.




The 5th green. The pot bunker that guards the front is pretty tough to get out of. It definitely makes you think about the 2nd shot because you don't want to end up in there.




The 7th Hole. This hole has a pot bunker in the middle of the fairway that makes you question the tee shot. The entire left side is nothing but trees and the creek.





The 8th Hole. One of the great driving holes on the course, framed by the bunkers on the left and the native grasses on the  right.




The 8th green is typical of all the greens at Warren with the push-up style. Crenshaw and Coore did a good job with the flat terrain to make it interesting, and it's tough to get up and down from left or right on this golf course.




The 9th Hole is a small green from 185 yards out, and well-guarded by deep bunkers in front, left, and right.




This par 5 (par 4 for college tourneys) at 495 is generous with the drive but difficult with the 2nd and 3rd shots. Juday Creek guards the green well, and the green is extremely undulating.




This hole is named after the Monogram (varsity) club, and it plays like a varsity-caliber hole at 446 yards. The drive is tough, and anything right is OB and into the trees. Trees guard the left.




The 13th requires a precise hook off the tee, and a 2nd shot that is framed by two illusionary bunkers that are actually 50 yards away from the green. The angle is awkward for some reason, and the swirling wind make it tough to judge.



The 14th is a short hole at 365, but the jigsaw piece bunkers on the right can play havoc. It's tough to get a stance in those bunkers.





This 16th is the signature hole of the course at 320 yards. The tee shot is tough because there's always an inclination to pull it left. The carry over Juday creek is not that long, but it does play with your mind. All there is on the left is trouble and bunkers. The approach is to a small, uphill, and undulated green where you must be below the hole.




This is the par-5 17th hole from the way back tees. Crenshaw and Coore created a lot of artificial sand dunes over on the right to give the course more aesthetic please. This hole has the most dramatic elevation change, and it's a fight uphill with the terrain to get to the green. There is water on the left of the tee shot.




The 18th hole has a tough drive over Juday creek, and the creek also guards the entire left side of the hole. The green is big but tough to hit. It never seems to hold shots well.




The timeless looking clubhouse. It's very quaint and simple.




This is the reality of South Bend for me at the current moment. Luckily, the winter has been relatively mild. This is a picture from South Quad on campus. I do miss playing golf, but I'm enjoying campus life.


After playing it a couple of times, the Warren course is definitely a good test from the back tees, (7000 yards from there). Word has gotten out, and the course is in line to host the Big East and NCAA regionals. It hosted the US Am qualifying last year. It's always in good condition, and it plays best when firm and dry. Crenshaw and Coore tried to take out as many trees as possible. When the course has its native grasses up, it definitely has a feel of a timeless links course so to speak. The course is generous with its drives, but it's a 2nd shot golf course. The bunkers that guard the greens are deep and penalizing. Putting is essential on the greens with many shelves and humps. It's a good test when it's dry, and enjoyable.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Michael,

Thanks for posting the pictures.

I'm very glad to see campus life is treating you good. Enjoy evey bit of the experience, and I hope you don't mind if I can live some of it vicariously through you. I'm a creature of warmth, but the chance to experience Notre Dame would have been worth the four freezing cold winters!

STIR THE ECHOS! (That's supposed to be blue & gold!)

[Sean_A]

Michael

Thanks for the photos!  Te course looks very good considering how flat it looks.  I really like the bunkering, it looks like the best part of the course.

GO BLUE

Ciao

Sean

[Brian_Gracely]

Michael,

Do you have any more pictures of:

Contours of the 4th green

Contours of the 16th green

Picture from the tee of the long Par3 (#11 or #12) on the back?  Great use of visual disception with those bunkers that are 50-60yds short of the green.

Your picture of the scar bunkers on #14 is good, but I'm not sure it can really show how small a couple of them really are.  You'd be lucky to get a one-foot stance in a couple of them.  

I wish I'd had the chance to play the course when I was up there in the fall (probably about the time your pictures were taken).  But Ken Fry was gratitous enough to give me a tour and point alot a number of the things that C&C used to make a flat piece of ground interesting.  

Warren Course is definitely worth visiting if you've every on the western side of Michigan or near Chicago.

[Keith Williams]

I had never seen much of this course, but I find these photos really alluring.  The bunkering does look great and I especially like the rough pots on 5 and 14.  And in this instance all of the fallen leaves in the bunkers seems entirely fitting for the rustic feel of the course, in fact I think they actually add something to the visuals.

Wasn't the Warren Course originally opened with no official par for the course or each individual hole?  Are there any half-par holes there that lacking any written par might have been played more creatively than with a guiding scorecard par?

Keith.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Michael,
Very nice series of photographs, it look like C&C have optimised a tough piece of land to turn into a golf course.

It very much reminds me of the Colt and Braid courses that exist around the West Midlands in England alot like Robin Hood, Copt Heath,Moseley..it certainly has that English parkland look to it.
I would like to get Sean and Mark R's comments on that.
The greens look minute, and the bunkering as usual for the architects very good.

[Sean_A]

Michael W-P

I think you are right!  I hadn't thought of it because my brain wasn't engaged properly.  I think the lush looking turf and virtual forest surrounding the course threw me off (reminds me a lot of Michigan).  The greens and approaches are similar in style to some classic courses such as Little Aston or even Sandwell Park (excepting the hillier holes).  The par 5 fifth could certainly be in the Midlands.  The holes with loads of bunkers remind me a bit of Copt Heath.  This certainly looks an enjoyable course.  Being a Uof M grad it would be difficult to justify a trip to South Bend for golf!

Ciao

Sean

[Ken Fry]

Keith,

The course did in fact open without par.  It was an idea we hatched while on a course walk through with Bill Coore.  A couple of the holes played very differently based on wind direction and were so called "half pars."

Over time, a handful of vocal critics made enough noise that par was put back in place.

Holes #2 and #10 were the "half par" holes in question.  Both heading west in direction, the prominent head wind direction.  As evidence of how far the college kids are hitting the ball, #10 is a 495 yard par 5, but the college kids play it as a par 4.  They routinely get to the green with anything from a 6 iron down to PW.

The new superintendent has taken the course conditioning back in the direction C&C wanted originally.  For those of you who have not seen it or have not seen it in a while, go during the summer/end of summer when the contrasting prairie grass is up.  The look and playability is wonderful.

Ken

[Michael Kim]

Brian Gracely,

Here are the photos you've requested.



This is the green on the par-3 4th hole. Where ever the pin is at, the golf ball better be below the hole or on the right shelf or you get these really nasty sidewinder putts. If the pin is back like in this picture and you hit the front of the green, it's a really tough put to judge with all the humps and bumps you have to negotiate. the green is easy to hit, but putting is the difficulty here.



This is from the tournament tees on the par 3 12th hole. it plays about 235 from here. it's all the way up hill, and there is sort of a mini-false front on the green that only comes into play when the green speeds are up. tough hole. the ladies' golf team always lays-up and plays it like a par-4 even from the forward tees, or what they call the "Lady Irish" tees.



This is the 16th green. It's a really small green, but the size is justified considering the hole is only 320 and when you're coming in with a wedge. A lot of people tend to go over the green, and if the pin is in the front, a imaginative pitch shot is needed to keep it on the green. this hole tests whether you can gauge a wedge shot uphill correctly. it takes some touch to do it.

[Brian_Gracely]

Michael,

Thanks for the pictures.  Do you have a picture of #9 from the tee?  How about a longer approach shot to #10 with some of the options around the creek?

The cool thing about #12 is those bunkers look like they're greenside, but in fact they are like 40-50yds short of the green.

When I first saw that green on #16, I thought someone had taken one of those old baseball gloves, before they had a deep pocket and web, and modeled the green after that.  #16 is a wonderful little hole, lots of options and challenges in a small package...and one of the most scenic areas on the course.  

[Michael Kim]

Brian Gracely,



Here's the 9th hole from the tee. The green looks so tiny from here, and makes it nerving to hit the shot. The first bunker you see on the right is actually about 30 yards from the green, and make it tough to hit a run up shot. I've seen so many people pull it onto the road which is OB. kinda dangerous... i've seen some close calls.



Here's the 10th from the fairway. That black and white stick out there marks 150 yards from the green. When it's dry and if you hit a good drive, you get a lot of roll down to that stick. that's why college tourneys play it as a par 4. even i usually only hit no more than a 6-iron to that green. i see people usually lay up to the other side of the creek towards the right which isn't that hard. it leaves a pretty open 3rd shot to the green, but the green has so many dramatic humps in it that it's tough to gauge the shot and get it close. going on a direct line can be dangerous if you don't strike the shot well. that creek is about 12 feet wide.

[Ken Fry]

The picture in the first batch of the 10th hole is taken from what I've always believed was one of the best locations on the entire golf course.  You can also see it in the distance with the last batch of pictures on the far side of the creek.

Beyond the creek to the right of the green is an alternative fairway hardly anyone uses.  C&C created a rolling, mounded fairway providing so many alternate shot possiblities.  You could drop 100 balls and spend an afternoon playing shots into this wonderful green.

The creek Michael speaks of was originally a bunker/waste area which stretched from left of the green all the way across the fairway (the same place the creek resides now).  It was decided a recirculating creek would add more challenge to the hole.  Given the strength of the green and the angles built into its surface, I've wondered over the last few years if it has helped.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael,

I recall the last picture in your first set all to well.

I remember walking through the buildings to get to class because it was too cold to walk outdoors.

Hopefully, I'll be making the trip to ND this fall and will include a round or two on the golf course if time permits.

Who knows, maybe Tommy will join us.

[TEPaul]

Patrick, you big duffus, does this mean it was ND that taught you how to be no more than 2% correct?

[TEPaul]

I've never seen that course before. Who in the hell did that one? Don't even tell me, I don't care---whoever they were they had to be flat-ass geniuses! Forget about those chumps Billy Coore and Benny Crenshaw, whoever did the Warren course are my new idols!

[Michael Kim]

Michael,

I recall the last picture in your first set all to well.

I remember walking through the buildings to get to class because it was too cold to walk outdoors.

Hopefully, I'll be making the trip to ND this fall and will include a round or two on the golf course if time permits.

Who knows, maybe Tommy will join us.

Well, the weather hasn't been so bad. I think there was only one morning that I recall where it was 0 degrees outside. I was walking all the way from the Golden Dome to Debartolo Hall (a long walk to class), and I seriously thought my ears wouldn't make it. I've gotten smart now and found a route I can depend on (Lafortune, through Nieuwland, through Stepan, then into O'Shag, and to Debartolo.) Of course, half of these buildings didn't exist when you were in school.  I think many of my fellow classmates have been shocked to see that they haven't seen me chronically complain, considering they know I'm from Southern California.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm really surprised this course hasn't been discussed more on here before.  

For a guy who hasn't been afraid to challenge some of C&C's work, it looks ideal to me.  Those little greens seem delightful.  

[Paul_Turner]

It does look super and different from the other C&C courses I've seen.

I'll third Michael and Sean's comparisons to those Midlands courses. (You guys know Olton?)

[Jason Hines]

Michael,

I love the short par 3, 4th, green and all.  I was looking at their website (which is very good) and the rates seem very reasonable.  How many rounds a year would you guess this facility sees?

[Ken Fry]

Jason,

I would "guess" about 24,000.

 

[Michael Kim]

Michael,

I love the short par 3, 4th, green and all.  I was looking at their website (which is very good) and the rates seem very reasonable.  How many rounds a year would you guess this facility sees?

The course is never abused at all by too many rounds. The only time I've heard of the course being abused is when they put it to the extreme condition-wise for the big east tourney and the US Am qualifying. It never seems busy to me. The only time when I see it really busy is on football weekends, and that's only 6 weekends out of the year. It's definitely reasonably priced for what it is. You get a lot of bang for your buck.