"New" Hazards

[Kyle Harris]

Sean, it's really a mound of sand that's well maintained... you can also use certain plants to keep the sand in place with the roots.

[Sean_A]

Kyle

Does this bunker require loads of watering?

Ciao

Sean

[A_Clay_Man]

Sean, Aren't you familiar with Wildhorse at all?
For one, overwatering and WH do not compute.

To answer your first question to me, I suppose the fingers of grass assist in keeping the sand in the bunkers. I also suspect that the sand, which is so plentiful, is not costly to re-fill, if needed, and. is perhaps heavy enough to stay put. After all that's what it's done for milenia.

[Sean_A]

Adam

Nope, never heard of Wildhorse except by folks on here.  The vast majority of US courses you folks write about are just words to me.  Very slim chance that I will ever play any of them!  Some of them sound like they may be worth a bit of a sojourn.  

Ciao

Sean

[Mark_Fine]

Tom Doak,
If you think trees are "underutilized" as hazards today, you need to take some time away from designing and get out and see a few more courses    

Whether or not they are used correctly is another question but they sure are being used as hazards and to direct the line of play.
Mark

[wsmorrison]

"The National Greenkeeper, November 1930, discusses the first Hole at Merion Cricket Club as having a "pocket of sand in a mound at the back of the Green punishes an overplayed approach".

This really wasn't a bunker, but certainly a hazard, and a difficult one at that.  Hitting from an elevated mound from sand to a downslope run to the cup."

Bill,

Shallow sand pits were also added to mounds behind the 3rd, 4th, 5th and 14th greens between 1916 and 1924.  And you pointed out that the bunker behind the 7th green on the West Course used to be a shallow pit in a mound above green level.

There obviously was a systematic effort to incorporate this hazard at Merion.  I know you agree, these features were much more effective when they were shallow pits above green level and with the green sloping away.  I'd like to see these interesting features used in today's designs.    

[wsmorrison]

Tom Doak,

Very interesting post.  I like the use of trees in their natural environment.  There are a number of examples in Flynn's designs, some of the best happen to be NLE--just a coincidence.  Today, one of the best remaining examples is the 11th hole at Huntingdon Valley.  Do you recall his use of native trees here?  I'll get some photos posted so that some on this site might see past their blinders  

Tom Paul mentioned, as did Linc Roden, that there was another strategic tree, this one on the right side off the upper 4th tee at Huntingdon Valley.

[Evan_Green]

And then there’s the question of what could replace them, what a “new” hazard feature could be, as Evan asked? There’re a number of them, some very well known. Would you like me to relate some of the fundamental points Behr made on this subject Evan?

Yes Tom, I would appreciate it if you would

[Evan_Green]

Evan

The National Greenkeeper, November 1930, discusses the first Hole at Merion Cricket Club as having a "pocket of sand in a mound at the back of the Green punishes an overplayed approach".

This really wasn't a bunker, but certainly a hazard, and a difficult one at that.  Hitting from an elevated mound from sand to a downslope run to the cup.

Thats interesting Willie- i am trying to picture it, sounds to me almost like the mound is a "snow capped peak", but with sand. Probably a tough hazard to maintain i would think.

[Evan_Green]

"they dont really seem to fit in naturally in a sterile tree-lined parkland setting in the same way they do in a dunes setting."

How don't they fit? Is it because designers are too busy trying to make them look too maintained? Pick-up any book of English Heathland courses and tell me how trees don't work with sand hazards as fitting in the image of how they should look.

Look at some of those images of Boston Golf Club, Walton Heath and tell me that bunkers don't fit in naturally. How does links benefit more from the relationship?

Questions-questions-questions...Always questions.....

Tommy-

No doubt bunkers fit very well on English heathland courses, but I did say STERILE parkland setting- whereas those English courses are hardly sterile.

I was speaking of the "Augusta-like" type of bunker that so many have tried to copy in terms of design and maintenance.

[Evan_Green]

Courses in the coal region of PA (Pottsville area specifically) have been known to use fly ash (half burned coal) and coal slag in hazards.

It's indigenous to the area and quite unique. One of my favorite courses, Mountain Valley Golf Club in Mahanoy City, PA has employed both to some success, and it plays remarkbly like sand.

Kyle-
I believe Nicklaus did something similar at his course in MT Old Works.

The black "sand" there is definately different looking from the pictures I have- i havent played it so I cant attest to what it plays like versus hitting out of a tradiditonal sand bunker, but you seem to suggest it plays similar to sand.

[Kyle Harris]

Convex hazards as far as I know require some considerable watering to aid the sand reaching optimum compaction. Then they are raked lightly a few times a week so it plays less like hardpan and more like sand.

As for trees being underutilized, I believe that are in a strategic sense. Sure, you have treelined fairways, but how many times do you see one or two trees as the chief hazard for the hole? In lieu of bunkers or water, et al.

[Mark Brown]

Slopes can be used as hazards to give the player a challengin lie - sidehil, uphill, downhill. At Harbour Town 80% of the hazards are trees.

At Teeth of the dog, Dye built small grass mounds and put a hollow of sand on top of the mound.

[Mike_Young]

I think grassy hollows are much more penal than bunkers as hazards but I think the real problem we will continue to face with "discovering a new hazard" is contrast.  Sand has been and will be the main material used for contrast in golf holes.  I just don't know if most golfers will accept other hazards unless they can bring to the pallette of the golf course what sand does.  Also, I do think that the vertical slope can be an extremely useful form of strategy to replace bunkers.  It would not be a hazard according to the rules.  If particular arras of a green complex are protected by extremely vertical shoulders melding into short grass chipping areas recovery is much more difficult than bunkering in the same area.
IMHO

[RJ_Daley]

Pete Dyes extreme somewhat convex bunkering along right side of #4 FW Whistling Straits.  They could sculpt out a few more sand pockets and then you'd get to what "the boys" did at Wild Horse below.


Wild Horses 5th greenside convex bunker:

[A_Clay_Man]

Dick, Did Josh alter the fingers since I was there? Hard to tell from the pictures' angle, but the fingers do appear less linear than I recall.

Kyle, Hopefully Josh Mahar will see this post and chime in on how he maintains the above New hazard.

[Steve Lang]

 

I like a good old ancient sea bed as a new hazard.. for forced carry and errant shots

[jeffwarne]

I guess it's safe for those of us who enjoy select, strategic specimen trees affecting  strategy,causing the need for creating shots, or(God Forbid) inflicting penalty-to come out of hiding-
Mr. Doak has given the seal of approval to trees as hazards on on a golf course-only 1 negative rant so far,if it'd been anyone else we'd be on page 5 now of this thread with the suggestion of trees being a good thing dismissed as the whimsical thoughts of a naive newby.

I'm pretty sure a tree left when constructing a hole is "natural",probably more natural than most so called "native grass"

Mark Fine-Of course many courses are overtreed,it doesn't mean those trees originally there were poor hazards-Trees and natural areas require maintenance,just like bunkers and rough.Imagine what a bunker would look like if it was untouched for 40 years.

Long Cove (where I formerly worked and Mr. Doak helped build)has some wonderful uses of trees as hazards,yet those trees have to be periodically maintained ,something which until recently wasn't done enough at Harbor Town.

[Tags:]

Tags: