[Mike Nuzzo]

Bill,
They have the option to turn some off after the grass gets established.  It's dependant on grass selection.
Maintenence is expensive.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Will Boston Golf Club be to Gil what Sand Hills was to C&C and Pacific Dunes to Tom Doak?

My guess is yes.

If this doesn't, The Prairie Club will!

[TEPaul]

Mike Hendren, Mike Cirba and especially TommyN;

You guys don't get those mounds around that green???

That's pretty shocking. I thought you guys knew architecture but obviously none of you "get it". Those mounds are one of the best "tributes" to "Mid Surrey" mounding (sometimes called "alpinization") I've ever seen.

See the one that's second on the right? That one is a beautiful imitation of Peter Lees and that magficent one on the left with a bunker in top that looks like a volcano is JH Taylor hisself!

You guys say you know NATURAL golf architecture when you see it??? Get outtatown---you all disgust me!

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

First you hit me with those "pop-up" bunkers at Hidden Creek being a tribute to some obscure heathland legacy.

Now, you tell me that those little "where do we put the piles of this excess dirt?" mounds behind that green are a tribute to "Mid Surrey mounding", a little known and quickly discarded practice of the early 20th century.

Next you'll be calling Bill Coore and suggesting he find a way to add some stiffly geometric "Dragon's Teeth" to Olde Sandwich!  

[Mike McGuire]

noticed they hydromulched the fairway on that par 5. Is that becoming more common in new construction? I know it costs a lot more but perhaps less erosion is worth it ??

[Michael Dugger]

I am fully impressed with what Hanse and crew has done here.  Fantastic stuff.  I see some Pine Valley in there even.
Bravo, guys, awesome stuff.  French Creek and now this, Gil Hanse is the man!

[Scott_Burroughs]

French Creek and now this, Gil Hanse is the man!

Don't forget Rustic Canyon, Applebrook, Inniscrone....

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom Paul,
If I don't call those mounds into question then I'm going to be accused of Mucci-bias, which would strengthen any argument regarding Ruus Jones and my so called disgust with his work. Personally, I love the shaping in the back and surface drainage, but the mounds do add a bit of character simply because its looks more like they belong at Mid-Surrey then they do at Nanphucket. After seeing Fowler's shaping in those images posted of Walton Heath, yes, why the hell not!

Personally I do think Alpinization does work on certain styles of land like inland sandy heath, especially when its used in a quirky random way, but not when its used specifically to contain shots.

After talking over it further with Gil, Geoff & Jim at dinner the other night, I still wasn't convinced with the exception of what Jim told me--the mounds need to mature and get color in them other then green. I like the hairy nature to them, and specifically I'm talking about the mounds right of the green. That back mound, well it looks as if it was taken right out of Architectural Side of Golf.

Personally, the course looks like a home run for Gil & Jim Wagner--who also deserves a lot of credit for the course and hasn't even been mentioned by anyone as of yet.

I'm interested in hearing Mark Fine and Forrest Richardson opinions of the course. Forrest happens to be the person in the images walking towards that Tillinghast-like green--say about the routing and their critique of the course.

[Adam_F_Collins]

It looks like a lot of fun to me...
...especially from this snow-covered position on the calendar!

[Michael Dugger]

French Creek and now this, Gil Hanse is the man!

Don't forget Rustic Canyon, Applebrook, Inniscrone....

Yeah, yeah, I know.  But I was leaving it up to you, Scott, to be so thorough.

Still, though, I prefer French Creek to the lot of them and speculate Boston CC will top them all.

[TEPaul]

Mike Cirba, regarding your post #30 and TommyN, regarding your post #34, the interesting and impressive thing about this website is we do have the ability to find out what an architect's reasons were for doing something. That doesn't mean, of course, that we have to agree with him or like what he did but we can find out what his reasons were.

Hidden Creek was supposed to be a bit of a "tribute" in New Jersey to early English heathland architecture. The architects and all those that worked there understood that and so did the owner, Roger Hansen. Matter of fact, Roger went to the heathlands just before the course was built.

Coore and Crenshaw also revolve their foremen on various projects for reasons that are sometimes very interesting. The foreman of Hidden Creek was James Duncan, a most interesting guy whose Scottish and Danish who has some real experience and knowledge of European and heathland architecture. Bill said he felt James Duncan certainly had more experience and knowledge of heathland architecture than he did and that's one of the reasons James became the foreman at Hidden Creek. James actually reminds me more of a youngish English don than a golf architect!

And just like the recent Old Head thread where Brian Phillips (European) may shortly ask one of the primary architects of the course the answer to the question on that thread, I think I'll just call Gil Hanse and ask him his reasoning and thoughts behind the bunkers around that hole's green at the Boston club.

None of that means any of us will or should change our opinions but it certainly is interesting if we can ask the architect his opinion.

Wouldn't it be interesting if we could do that with Macdonald, Mackenzie, Ross, Wilson, Crump and some of the others who are no longer here?

[Sean_A]

I think the course looks like a keeper.  The mounds look alright, perhaps a bit abrupt (Tetonish) for the land around it and they seem to descend in height from left to right.  They will probably look quite natural given some time.

The bunkering is interesting because many look wild and some look quite organized and trim.

Where is this club?


Ciao

Sean

[Scott Coan]

Sean,

It is in a town called Hingham, about 15 miles to the southeast of Boston.  Hingham is a seaside town but this course is built in the woods about 5 miles inland.  I grew up one town over in Scituate and played my formative golf at Hatherly CC.  The only chance I have of ever getting a whiff of this track (BGC) is if they join the Old Colony League of which Hatherly is a member.  A club called Black Rock was built in a rock quarry on adjacent land and they have since joined the OCL so I still have the remotest of hopes to one day play there.  I understand this is to be a male-only, golf-only, ultra-exclusive golf club along the lines of the Augusta of the Northeast.  So realistically these photos are the closest I will ever get to my old golfing stompground!

Many thanks to Scott for posting these pictures, and hope more will follow.

[Sean_A]

Scott

Cheers Scott.  So Hingham is roughly between Boston and Plymouth?  

Ciao

Sean

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

Yep...I know the intent of the bunkers at Hidden Creek and their Heathland tribute origins.  

Heck, if native Paul Turner likes 'em, then my feeble objections fall pretty flaccid, don't you think?  

[Scott Coan]

Sean, yes - roughly midway but a bit closer to Boston than Plymouth.

Scott

http://www.key-biz.com/ssn/src/maps.html

[Steve Curry]

Here!

[Mark_Fine]

I played and walked Boston Golf Club for the second time last week.  In my opinion, this is hands down Gil's best design (I've played all the others mentioned).  A tough walk and some very severe greens (which I like but some may think are a bit extreme) but overall it is outstanding.  It will not be overlooked on any of the major lists.  Go out of your way to try to play it if you can.  Worth a trip in itself.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Below, I've added hole descriptions for some of the BGC photos posted earlier.  

BGC is truly a unique experience on a piece of land that was demanding and Gil Hanse and company took a lot of risks that really paid off, and, IMO, created a round of golf that is unlike any I've played.  There were about a dozen points in the round when I said, "I really don't think I've ever seen this before "

Saying that BGC provides a complex, demanding and ridiculously enjoyable round is an under statement.  BTW, these may be the best collection of 18 greens I've every played.      

# 5 Green, 317 yd 4 par:


#5 Approach:


#7 Tee Shot, 460 yd 4 par



#7 Approach



# 8 Green, 232 yard 3 par
 


9th Green  looking backward toward elevated tee on top of ridge, 458 yard 4 par



# 1 Approach, 521 yard 5 par



# 2 Tee Shot, 418 yard 4 par



# 3 Tee Shot 430 yard 4 par



# 3 Approach



# 4 Tee Shot (I believe) 438 yard 4 par



# 5 tee shot



Close up of same



#18 Tee Shot 195 yard 3 par



# 18 green

[Jason Blasberg]

Does the architect get a pass on the mounds, uh I mean chocolate drops?  

 

This the first hole and a reachable 5 par and the second shot is played from a hanging lie to a slightly elavated small green with severe drop offs and certain lost balls long.  The mounds actually encourage a heroic second shot in that at least visually they appear to contain, however, recovery from above the pin is unlikely as the green is pitched severly from back to front.  My guess is that without the mounds many would simply lay up for a wedge third.  I hit driver, 5 iron just short right and missed a 4 footer for birdie.  The mounds appear natural in person and are small in scale compared to the large feeling of the course.  

What you can't see in the photo is that the back left portion of the green ties in with the back portion of 4 green and there is a bunker in the middle of the closely mown tie in area that is in play on both holes, especially for number 1 if one hits hit long left to avoid the sure disaster short and rght.  One of many unique touches at BGC.  

[Jason Blasberg]

Does the architect get a pass on the mounds, uh I mean chocolate drops?  

 

What you can't see in the photo is that the back left portion of the green ties in with the back portion of 4 green and there is a bunker in the middle of the closely mown tie in area that is in play on both holes, especially for number 1 if one hits hit long left to avoid the sure disaster short and rght.  One of many unique touches at BGC.  

Correction, the 1st green ties in with 3 green.  

[Glen Rapoport]

I was fortunate to play Boston Golf Club this past week and would reinforce what Jason has said.  18 very memorable holes on a very challenging site from a construction perspective.  There is a degree of severity recurring in the greens that will startle the first time player but perhaps challenge the returning member to avoid being on the wrong side of the ridges that run throught the greens.  Many of them are canted from front to back and require knoweldge of the ground in front of the green and pin positioning.  Several of the landing areas on the par 5's will be improved when some additional length is added(which is planned).  The short par 4 fifth hole will generate hours of discussion.  This is a old world course that has its imperfections and quirks that will make members and returning guests grind their teeth and vow to master it the next time they are invited back.  This is not just another "so and so's" course that some bid developer paid big bucks to have a "name deisgner" on the scorecard.


Glen

[Tim Gavrich]

Looks amazing.  Very Mike-Strantz in places, which I like very much.  I actually dont mind the mounds behind that one green.  Hitting a ball through the green and onto those would petentially leave an interesting variety of shots (i.e. downhill/uphill/sidehill lies within a small area).  Keeps the golfer on his/her toes, wjich befits a course with such striking features.

I assume this will be ultra private?  I'm going to be in the Plymouth area the first weekend in November (playing Pinehills in a tournament).  Where exactly is it?  Perhaps I'll see if I can get a peak at it in person.

EDIT:  Whoops, overlooked the post that said (All-male, ultra private, like Augusta National).
It's still awesome though.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba & Tommy Naccarato,

You remind me of the guy sitting in the upper deck in right field who starts screaming at the umpire that the third baseman missed the tag.

Ross used mounds, Travis used mounds, Tillinghast used mounds, C&C use mounds, even Rees Jones uses mounds.

Are you so hung up on the concept that they might be acceptable, but only if used by certain MFN architects, that you oppose them in principle.

I immediately noticed the rear mounding.
My thoughts were:

Gil knows what he's doing and I trust his judgement.

I was also curious if anyone else noticed them to the degree that they'd post about them.

Why am I not surprised that you and Tommy led the charge ?

By the way, what town is Boston GC in ?

[Glen Rapoport]

Patrick,

the course is in Hingham.

by the way, those mounds behind the first green separate the second tee from the rear of the green and when you leave the first green and walk through the mounds you are almost startled to find yourself on the second tee with the expanse of the fairway and green (2nd) in front of you.

Glen

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