Getting ready for the Nissan and other random pics

[Jeff Fortson]

#1 Tee


#9 (taken from Clubhouse view)  notice that you can't see any bunkers even at this height


#18 Green, #10, & #9 (taken from atop giant grantstand left of #18 green)


Skeleton of granstand left of #18 green


#10   ...strategy...


Looking down #18 from grandstand (you can see #4 in the distance)


#18 green - This is what it is like to work an opening shift on a Sunday morning at Riviera.  I can't think of too many offices that beat this view.  It is a constant reminder of why I am in this business.



There will be more as we get closer to the tournament.


Jeff F.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

For how long has the approach fairway on # 18 been contoured and pinched in ?

What year was it first altered ?

Is it widened and straightened after the tournament leaves town ?

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Judging from all of the carts paths crisscrossing the landscape I assume the Nissan is held at a public course?

[Craig Van Egmond]

Kelly,

    I don't think that technically Riveria is a public course, but I have heard that they will let just about anybody with a couple hundred bucks play there.  

[Jeff Fortson]

Patrick,

I will get those answers to you later.  I have only worked here since May and, to be honest, this is how the 18th has looked the entire 9 months.  The mowing practices have been quite consistent.  I will ask the super about it today.

In response to the other comments...

Yes, unfortunately there are cart paths on the golf course which is something I am not a fan of.  However, we have a lot of people that ride in carts and the paths are a necessary evil to keep the course in good condition.

As for Riviera being a public course or letting people out for the right price.  Well, I have been working here for 9 months and I have turned away well over 200 phone calls from non-members seeking access.  We will accept some limited reciprocal play like many private clubs do.  I have seen or experienced nothing that would lend itself to the comments made above.  


Jeff F.

[ChipRoyce]

UGGGG!

10 will be one of my most favorite holes to ever play (although never hit shots to the alt. green).

I have to say #1 looks horrible without being able to view fairway bunkers, and the pinched in look of the other holes is just atrocious. The small greens are so much more fun when you play them from all sorts of various angles. Sure the course has the Kikyuiu(sp) rough, but if you don't hit the greens this is still a challenging course.

[Peter_Herreid]

Jeff--

Thanks for posting the great photos!  I particularly like the shots off the empty grandstands, as they show angles that we wouldn't otherwise get to view.

I always enjoy watching this one on TV.  Is Tiger passing this one over this year?  It seems like this is one place that has gotten in his head, as it's one of the few tourneys he has regularly competed in and not yet won...

[Bob_Huntley]

Jeff,

Do you have a picture of the 6th hole?

Bob

[Jimmy Muratt]

Tiger is planning on playing at Riviera.  It was mentioned a few times in articles relating to Steve Williams' recent car racing accident.  It's unknown whether Williams will be able to be on the bag by that time.  

Here's the last line from an AP story regarding the accident:
"Woods, the Buick Invitational winner last week, will return to play Feb. 17 in the Nissan Open at Riviera in Los Angeles."

[Jfaspen]

Great pics..

unrelated, but i happened upon riveria when i was in malibu in november.. drove around that sub, caught a few quick glimpses of the course and the guard at the gate.. it was neat just being there.

[Jeff Fortson]

Chip,

What holes are pinched in?  For the last nine months nothing has changed in relation to mowing practices in regards to fairway width.  #18 looks a lot more narrow in my picture because I took a vertical photograph.  It is not that narrow.  I play the hole 5 times a week and it is very fair in regards to its width.

While I feel widening the left side of #1 would be great for everyday play, I don't see the necessity for the Nissan.  It's a 500 yard par-5, downhill.  You can still reach the green from the rough if you don't catch a bad lie.  

Overall, the rough is not going to be that high by tournament time and I imagine scores will get into the double digits under par again barring any nasty weather.


Jeff F.

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff,

What is the impression of the membership regarding the kikuyu and how it prevents the ground game such as on 18 and the first par 3 on the front (#4?)?  I thought that #10 was also dimished by this grass as the bump shot just short of the green to get to a front pin was all by illiminated by the velcro-like entry.  What are the old members (those before the kikuyu took over) saying?

I could see how Riviera in a firm and fast condition could be just awesome.  As it was when I played it, dry but wiry, I was not blown-over.

[Jeff Fortson]

Lou,

I think the majority of people that play Riviera regularly would agree that replacing the Kikuyu would be great.  However, at least 95% of the members that play Riviera have never played it on any other surface.  It is easy to suggest that Riviera would be better without the Kikuyu and I, for one, think many holes would greatly benefit from a different grass.  Unfortunately, the undertaking of such a project is almost unimaginable.  

As for taking away the ground game?  There are more ways to play the ground game than you might imagine.  For instance I watched someone hit driver on #4 the other day up the right side at about head height and used the redan feature beautifully.  The ball carromed down like any other grass would allow.  

Where the Kikuyu changes the ground game is in moderate to low spinning wedge shots that you can hit on other grasses that bounce, check and release.  These shots don't work on Kikuyu.  They take that first hop jump up and stop with little or no release.  To assume that the ground game is played only in this manner is where I feel most people lack imagination.  I guarantee if you learn to hit short game shots with little spin or in some cases with a putter you can easily exploit the ground to your advantage.  

Don't get me wrong, Kikuyu can be less consistent than other grasses in this regard but to deny it any amount of merit in regards to its ability to host a ground game is flat out wrong and unimaginative.

I'm sorry you weren't blown over by Riviera, Lou.  Different strokes for different folks.  I personally think it is the best course I have played in California (I haven't played CPC, Valley Club, or SFGC).  The shot values are all there and the challenge never wanes.  The routing is second to virtually none and the bunkering is some of the most inspired and beautiful in the world.  Not to mention the placement of the hazards and green sites are near perfection.


Jeff F.

[ed_getka]

Jeff,
  Keep the pictures coming. If you don't mind, add some insight into the strategies of the holes and how you play them. Interesting comments about the short game and finding a way to use the ground. Imagination still counts.

[Jeff Fortson]

Here are a few more.....


#18 Tee Shot - Aim at the Palm Tree or Deano's old gazebo


#18 Short drive approach - Where is the lack of width in this fairway?  I don't see it.


#18 Long Drive


#14 Tee shot - Par 3   This great hole gets overshadowed by the more famous par 3's at Riviera and I think that is a shame.  This is a classic looking hole with a great green that leaves most people shaking their heads.



Look for the thread on #10 to see some more pics.


Jeff F.

[Mike Benham]

Thanks for posting the pics - the photo of 18, and in particular the hole location, makes me think that that particular location may be one of the tougher to get close.

With a ball-below-the-feet shot from the fairway, a narrow front of the green, and the imposing hill on the left, that most shots end up short-right in the rough or off the green.  Perhaps the play is short of the green with a simple (?) pitch and putt.  What is your experience?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I cannot say enough about this course. Its one of my favorite in the Game. Riviera is a study of Golf Archtecture and beyond. (No wonder Lou Duran doesn't get it! )

One thing for sure, almost every shot is a thrilling one and I have a hard time thinking of one shot that isn't. Each shot there is equally as important as the next if your ever planning on going low there.

1-Thrilling drive; well placed 2nd which has to cross the arroyo; pitch onto the green for us mere mortals and then putt on one of the better bommerangs in the game.

2-The importance of hitting a BIG drive on this hole is imperative. The second shot is equally as daunting and then when you reach the green, you have to figure out the break. One of the trickiest greens on the course.

3-Simplistic Golf Strategy on the 3rd--Go for the left side so you have a better angle to get into the green; if not, playing it as a three shot hole will get you par; test the bunkers and we might see you in a week. That bunker on the right is HUGE in scale!

4-Personally, I think the Redan feature can still be used to a green that I liken to base jumping. A magnificent golf hole--my 2nd favorite on the course, only because of #10 is that good.

5-A hole that is has evolved into one of the more definitve hole out there. The tee shot has to hug the left side to have the best angle going into the green. If your right, you bring into play that huge knob or mound and then the shot becomes totally blind to the green.  Shorter players have to avoid ending up with you second on the slope--a certain death. In the old days, you could try to take a shot over that knob and watch it kick down, Redan-style to the green. Just over the pinnacle of that knob is gunk and grunge you could only imagine, and then slanting fairway to the pin. A phenominal putting surface that has you feeling your going to slip-off and land on the sixth tee.

6-Quirk at its finest--the famed 6th, easily one of the most focal holes at Riviera. Certainly one of the more strategic greens in the game.

7-Fazio/Marzaltov's bunker, while being totally out of tune and out of character with Riviera, still works for this hole until you get to the ugly and horrible shaping and whale's tail at its end.  What were they thinking? They have one of the best aerial photos of all-time in the clubhouse on the wall telling them what it looked like!  The hole is still phenominal though. one tough little bugger!

8-There is absolutely no reason for anyone to play to the right side of this alternative fairway. You don't belong at Riviera if you do. It's sacralige to do so. Fazio/Marzaltov's green extension and crown don't belong here, but I will ask this, WHY doesn't Fazio do more of those crowns on his ORIGINAL golf courses?

9-Once again, basic golf strategy 101, just do whatever it takes to get on the green and get down and in the cup, ASAP. Oustanding green tucked-away in a little shallow cove.

10-  Look-up the dictionary, the definition of a world class golf hole and the 10th will be there everytime. One of the 18 GREATEST GOLF HOLES IN THE WORLD. (Maybe even in the Top 3)

11-The second hole in a row where the importance to score and score as soon as possible, because five of the next seven holes are as demanding as it gets, the 11th can and will take you apart. Important to see just exactly how the green sets, as well as observe all of those that putt before you. This green is a sneak!

I'll do the rest later. Right now, I'm going to bed! But before I do, how come Rees Jones and Tom Fazio can't design golf courses like this?

[Nick Pozaric]

Kelly,

    I don't think that technically Riveria is a public course, but I have heard that they will let just about anybody with a couple hundred bucks play there.  

When I played there a few of years ago the member I played with said it was the busiest private course he has ever seen.  Its an incredible course and  I will never forget my time playing there.  The day I played we had caddies and they were wonderful.  I played there back in 2001 and still remeber every shot  I took, thats a sign for me of a memorable round and and awesome course

[James Edwards]

Bob,  I have a few of #6.  If you want them posted someone would have to help me.

j

[Jeff Fortson]

Kelly,

    I don't think that technically Riveria is a public course, but I have heard that they will let just about anybody with a couple hundred bucks play there.  

When I played there a few of years ago the member I played with said it was the busiest private course he has ever seen.  Its an incredible course and  I will never forget my time playing there.  The day I played we had caddies and they were wonderful.  I played there back in 2001 and still remeber every shot  I took, thats a sign for me of a memorable round and and awesome course

It's a busy private course because there are a lot of members and the weather is in a perfect stasis.  Match this with a near perfect course and don't you think it should be busier than most?


Jeff F.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff, et. al.,

In looking at Mike Benham's picture taken from behind the green and looking back toward the tee, should the bunkers short of the green be in the fairway ?

Doesn't the fronting rough act as a buffer, preventing balls from entering the bunker ?

Wouldn't mowing the rough in front of the bunker to fairway create a feeding feature, especially with the left to right slope of the fairway.

Does anyone have photos of this hole dating to the 70's, 50's and earlier ?

[Lou_Duran]

Signor Naccarato,

How you incessantly attack me.  Sticks and stones, buddy!

For the record, I believe that Riviera is a wonderful course.  But for the odius kikuyu, a set of rather mundane par 5s, and repetitive par 3s on the back, it would very high up on my list of world-class courses.  I suspect that during Hogan's time it was a supreme test of golf.

Unfortunately, three of its best known holes, nos. 4, 10, and 18, do not appear to play as they were intended.  Tiger (Bernhardt) and I played the course prior to the KPIII last year, on an idylic day with relatively firm conditions.  On #4, I hit a 3-wood way right, where it stayed in the wiry rough as it should have.  Tiger hit a low, controlled driver down the right side on the rough line expecting the ball to follow the slope, but the grass grabbrf it and kicked it right if anything.  Not very redanesque if you ask me.  (We tried the shot later a couple of times and were unable to get the ball going and advancing left)

On #10 I hit a driver to about 70 yards from a front left pin.  I barely hit a spinning wedge a yard or so onto the green and it rolled to the back fringe.  Going back out later, I tried to hit the shot from a similar spot, this time trying to bounce the ball off the slope just short of the green.  With both shots, the ball stopped immediately and short.  Hitting a shot without spin as Jeff suggested would result in the ball running well over the back.

With the new back tee on #18, it is  a very long hole, and the tee shot lands on an upslope (probably not for Fortson and his gorilla peers).  The next shot, often from a hanging lie below the RH golfer's feet, is with a mid-iron to fairway metal, again with the terrain and the trouble forcing you to aim left.  I suspect that prior to the kikuyu infestation, one could play a shot off the left greenside mound and the ball would have a decent chance to feed toward the green.  Now it just gets stuck there, and I could probably hit a small bucket of balls and not get a single pitch within 10' of most hole locations.  It is a beautiful, exacting, but somewhat of a one-dimensional hole.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Lou,
Its still a supreme test, although one that is definitely hampered by the noxious grass.  But I have one for you--for all of the complaints about Kikuyu and how its impossible to get a ball to run on the stuff, I'll advocate the great lie one has on almost every shot on the course--in the fairway. It certainly makes the ball easier to hit and even control!

You need to study this coruse some more Lou--one visit doesn't do it. I have seen the course in person more then most non-members and I'm still amazed how beautiful--how in depth the architecture speaks here.

[George Pazin]

Would the kikiyu be less objectionable if it were simply all mowed at or near fairway height? I was under the impression that it is a fantastic fairway grass.

[Steve Lapper]

Having just played Riviera and LACC, all I can say is WOW!

Riviera is in the best shape and condition I've ever seen or played. The greens are pure and running around a 10 with plenty of room left to cut and roll them up to a 12 or so. The fairways are lush, yet tight and the rough kikuyu is uniform and healthy. I can't begin to describe just how beautiful the plavve looks given all the rain the LA area had just two weeks past.

LACC is also in tip-top shape. Their superb super, Bruce Williams has left the relatively ideal maintnence meld intact with slighly browning but well-mown and attended fairways and lightening fast yet steady greens.

What a treat to play these gems in this condition. My hats off and bows made to these greenskeepers and their crews. Knowing how severe the recent torrential downpours were and just how much damage they can have on the turf, it is pure wonderment and awe to ask how it's possible to get these courses back to their top form so quickly.

PS...I'm still shaking from two (yes 2) near aces. I rimmed out on Riv's 14 and stopped 2 inches short on LACC #11. Couple that with making a 100 foooter for a 3 on LACC 17 to make me best round there, I'm ready to retire... cause it ain't going to be easy to get better than that!