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Adam_F_Collins

Beyond the green
« on: February 02, 2005, 10:19:15 AM »
Does anyone know of a hole designed to present the player with an option or temptation to go beyond the green? By this I mean to hit his ball further away than the green is and come back to it from another angle?

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 10:27:49 AM »
Adam,

I recall Geo. Thomas discussing this type of design in his book, Golf Architecture in America. But I can't think of a hole that's set-up in this fashion today?

Good question.
jeffmingay.com

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 10:30:26 AM »
#18 at Applebrook encourages a long shot that can roll back onto the green.
AKA Mayday

Doug Sobieski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 10:41:12 AM »
#9 at The Bear (Grand Traverse Resort) is a par 3 with a peninsula green that sticks out into a lake, with the fairway behind the green. The safe play is long, assuming it hasn't been renovated since my last visit many years ago.


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 10:49:53 AM »
Adam

Do you mean as a safe area to miss the green and have a good (the best) chance to save par? Or are you thinking of a hole that might recommend regulation shots to be played past the green and then back to it?

I can think of several that fit the first option, but can't even imagine one along the lines of the second.

Brent Hutto

Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 10:52:19 AM »
I'm not sure to what extent this is an "option or temptation" but the seventeenth hole at my home course is an uphill, semi-blind Par 3 with pretty much no option of playing short of the putting surface. There's a false front on a shallow, wide green with a deep bunker built into the slope on the left side and a very steep face of short grass forming the remainder of the front of the green.

However, long and left there's a collection area cut to chipping height and a similar but smaller hollow directly behind the middle of the green. One problem is that those hollows aren't but 10-15 paces deep and there's OB behind them so you wouldn't want to fly the ball all the way back there on purpose. The other problem is that separating those two hollows, long and a little left of center, is a little mound covered in thick rough. But still, everyone knows to err on the long side because from the center-back hollow you have an easy uphill chip and from the long-left one you have a fairly simple chip although it isn't really uphill much.

I always use the club that I think will fly it to the back edge of the green. I can be either five yards long or twenty yards short and still have an easy chance to get down in two. Even that's easier said than done since it is severely uphill (green is 30+ feet above the tee) and the breeze is tough to judge because the entire hole is tucked behind a hill which induces a swirling action to the prevailing breeze.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 10:58:46 AM »
There is a story that Ben Hogan used to intentionally play long on the 10th hole at Oakmont, which has a green that slopes rather dramatically front to back (as do a few other Oakmont greens - why this feature is not utilized more is completely beyond my meager abilities of comprehension).

When asked why, he said, I'd rather be there in 2 than 3.

Tom Paul has spoken on occasion of a cutback hole - maybe he'll tell you more if he sees this.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

michael j fay

Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2005, 11:46:50 AM »
Woods drove the ball over the 12th green at the R&A all four days in 2000 and chipped back to the green.

I believe he birdied the hole every time.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2005, 02:02:25 PM »
Of course! The Old Course...

There are several greens at St. Andrews where recovering from behind the putting surface is comparatively simple due to their front-to-back tilt. Including the 12th, as Mr. Fay points out above. And how about the 17th? If you're going to miss the green there, long, near the 18th tee probably leaves the simplest chip (or putt?).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2005, 02:08:29 PM by Jeff_Mingay »
jeffmingay.com

ForkaB

Re:Beyond the green
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2005, 02:21:54 PM »
Of course! The Old Course...

There are several greens at St. Andrews where recovering from behind the putting surface is comparatively simple due to their front-to-back tilt. Including the 12th, as Mr. Fay points out above. And how about the 17th? If you're going to miss the green there, long, near the 18th tee probably leaves the simplest chip (or putt?).

Jeff

The entire Swedish team tried this strategy vs. the Americans at the old Dunhill Cup 5-10 years ago and got slaughtered.  There is a waterway called the Swilcan Burn that complicates the long left ploy....... ;)

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