Does anybody here...

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - what that looks like a VERY fun hole to play, well....

I'm not seeing why I don't just blast away with driver using modern clubs.  Remember how straight one can confidently hit today's drivers... I don't fear the "alps" area enough to cause me enough consternation...  And you're correct in that the right side can't be death or else NO one ever hits driver or bothers trying for the better angle to the right...

Like I say, very cool hole - in fact it's reminiscent of one of my favorite holes on the planet - #2 at NGLA.

I just don't see this as being an example of me not hitting driver.

But that's ok, it's blast away at NGLA also.  Great holes can work like this.

TH

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle - what that looks like a VERY fun hole to play, well....

I'm not seeing why I don't just blast away with driver using modern clubs.  Remember how straight one can confidently hit today's drivers... I don't fear the "alps" area enough to cause me enough consternation...  And you're correct in that the right side can't be death or else NO one ever hits driver or bothers trying for the better angle to the right...

Like I say, very cool hole - in fact it's reminiscent of one of my favorite holes on the planet - #2 at NGLA.

I just don't see this as being an example of me not hitting driver.

But that's ok, it's blast away at NGLA also.  Great holes can work like this.

TH

Sounds like your tempted enough for my taste.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle:

I'm not tempted, I'm hooked. To me it's a no-brainer driver.  Is that really what you want?

BTW if I'm playing hickories, I have a LOT to consider.

TH

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle:

I'm not tempted, I'm hooked. To me it's a no-brainer driver.  Is that really what you want?

BTW if I'm playing hickories, I have a LOT to consider.

TH

Yeah, be hooked. Duck hooked.  

Hubris, Mr. Huckaby, pure hubris.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle, I swear to you its not hubris - I am not that good.  I just really don't see that as tight enough to make me think twice about hitting driver, nor do I see enough penalty for failure.  Perhaps it's my vision of the hole... seeing it in person might change my mind.  But it looks pretty darn wide.  And with a modern Lwedge, I'm not fearing that Alps area either.

Make it screaming firm and fast, very tightly-grassed fairway and the fear of the Alps area increases, because it's tough to hit an LW off of that (think #6 Pacific Dunes)... again, might be my bad but I'm also assuming normal American soft conditions.

This hole is also quite reminiscent of #6 Pacific Dunes, come to think of it.  You be doin' some channelin'.  But make your greenside bunker the death-trap that the one there is, and then you also have something.

See, it is all in the details.

 

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,

I certainly agree to you. The features are a but a small part of the puzzle. The melding of maintenance practices and the ability of the hole to adapt to the weather (Pat's symbiotic relationship) all determine how hard the hole will play on any given day.

I typically assume firm and fast - to do otherwise would be to design an aerial golf course with little options.

My bunkers are bunkers... damn the rake full speed ahead and the like.  

I've never seen the 6th at Pac Dunes - not familiar with any hole at the Bandon courses.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - good man.  OK, make it screaming firm and fast, and make that bunker a place I'm concerned about getting out of in one shot, and then we have something.  I'm definitely thinking about laying back and staying to the right.

BTW, here's #6 at PD:

http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/pacific_hole6.cfm

TH

[Kyle Harris]

Bump. Let's see if some of the newer contributors can chime in.

[Peter Pallotta]

Kyle -

While I have no stats to back this up, I'd bet that the beginning golfer today becomes an 18 handicap in a lot less time (and in a lot fewer rounds) than the beginning golfer did in 1970.  And so, the human ego being what it is, today's average golfer will start blaming the architecture for his bad rounds a lot quicker than his 70s counterpart did.  And, given that average golfers today seem to need/choose to spend more time on family and other non-golfing activities than did their predecessors, most of those average golfers can't afford to give a golf course they didn't like much of a second chance.  All of which puts much more pressure on golf architecture and golf architects to deliver the goods, and to deliver those goods immediately, and to deliver them to the widest possible audience. I think that's what technology has done, for better or worse.

Peter