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wsmorrison

Golf Architecture Research Center
« on: January 26, 2005, 01:39:18 PM »
Discussions with Mark Rowlinson, Tom Paul, Bob Crosby and others regarding establishing a collection of golf architectural materials past, present and future has been ongoing for a while now.  I've had some discussions with a prominent archives and a separate institution that are willing to consider being a repository and point of dissemination for reference material on golf architecture.  Of course, they want to know how the storage space and staff will be funded.  

I know we all feel it is important to an understanding of the history of golf and will benefit clubs now and in the future if this material is made available with modern technology.  We'd like to see collectors, historians, architects and clubs provide materials.  Of course rights to the materials and compensation are among many needs to be considered.  Funding the project so that staff can be paid, storage space commited and access allowed is key.

A number of us met Mark Rowlinson yesterday in Philadelphia after his visits in Northern California and Chicago.  We spent some time talking about this.  Tom and I have a meeting in early Feb with a group we feel is perfectly suited to handling the USA side of things.  Let's keep the ideas flowing and try to formalize how we can get this idea to come about.

One of the methods to fund this endeavor might be a series of annual golf tournaments around the world.

How do the architects that participate here feel about their work being archived?  How do collectors and historians feel about their efforts being centralized and made available to others?

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2005, 04:42:00 PM »
Wayne:

It looks like the participants to this site are more interested in how to define strategy, caddie stories or five page debates about what the 2nd or even the 17th best golf course in New Jersey is!

;)

THuckaby2

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2005, 04:50:51 PM »
TEP:

I hope that doesn't surprise you.

And I read this with awe... what a wonderful idea and lasting contribution to golf this would be....

But what can us yokels do to help?  And unfortunately, us yokels are far more active in the DG than are the real difference-makers.

So patience, those people will show up.  In the meantime, bear with us yokels, because we really have little to help make the GARC happen.  But we do have our place.  Big beautiful world of golf, remember?

TH
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 04:51:49 PM by Tom Huckaby »

wsmorrison

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2005, 04:57:13 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

Of course there's something you can do.  You can help with the west coast GARC fund raising tournament!

Tom Paul,

It looks like the GARC will have to have the Matt Ward Golf Course Ranking Center and a Favorite Caddie Stories Multimedia Theater to generate much interest  ;D

ian

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2005, 05:04:20 PM »
Wayne,

If there were such a body. I would offer them all the information I have collected in digital files for easy sharing. I personally keep nothing original on principle. Everything I have ever found has gone back to the club.

Some suggestions:

1. All files should be digital only.
2. This should be a user fee system
3. Originals should remain with the owner

THuckaby2

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2005, 05:08:04 PM »
Tom Huckaby,

Of course there's something you can do.  You can help with the west coast GARC fund raising tournament!


Well I walked right into that one, didn't I?
 ;D
If help means play in it and/or contribute money, I'm your man.  If help means anything beyond that, what do you want to do, lose money?

TH

Brian_Gracely

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2005, 05:12:32 PM »
Is there a reason why you wouldn't try and associate yourself with an existing entity that has facilities, equipment, technology, etc.....such as the Tuft Archives?  Sure there would still be funding issues, but storage is alot cheaper than capital expenditures.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2005, 05:12:53 PM »
I hope this comment isn't out of line at all,

Is the ASGCA an organization that would be interested in this? Don't they have some resources and such that would be a positive contribution?

Joe

Or, what Brian just said......good timing! ;D
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 05:13:49 PM by Joe Hancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

wsmorrison

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2005, 05:13:28 PM »
Ian,

Thanks for your comments.  I agree that digitization is key to disseminating the information broadly and readily.  Some may wish to loan originals so that they might be properly scanned and returned.  Yet, others may be interested in donating original material as a charitable contribution or for some user- fee remuneration.  Not necessary, but still an option.  Ian, your extensive digital files would be a great addition.  Photographic records would be key!

Tom H,

Well then, just play.  We'll leave it up to those that will ensure a positive cash flow  ;)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 05:14:27 PM by Wayne Morrison »

michael j fay

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 05:17:56 PM »
The Tufts Archives in Pinehurst is already doing this for all the Ross records and myself and a few others are adding new images of the old courses as we go along.

If the images are to be digital only, Tufts is the natural place to start. They could use the income. I would be interested in other ideas.

MJF

wsmorrison

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2005, 05:46:20 PM »
Brian,

I think we should certainly consider the Tufts.  The staff there is very helpful.  I'm not sure they are interested in being an archive of world-wide architecture, perhaps they are.

Joe,

I think the ASGCA could be an archive, the members should certainly donate materials.

What about the USGA and the R&A?  There's a chance we can convince the USGA to take up the task.  They have outstanding infrastructure and staff.  If they are provided with yearly funding, they could see it through.  Working in conjunction with the R&A, a world-wide project could succeed.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 05:47:09 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2005, 05:49:03 PM »
While I think the idea is great, I don't think you will get many clubs donating their histories. Most clubs are extremely private and I don't think many would want the exposure.

wsmorrison

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2005, 05:54:38 PM »
Donnie,

Even if all we're interested in is the architectural history?  The architectural records are all that would be archived.  Do you think most clubs would want to control this material?

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2005, 06:08:12 PM »
Wayne,

How many past green chairmen want the world to know that they were the one XXX years ago that told so and so to fill 15 traps and re-contour 3 greens?

wsmorrison

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2005, 08:27:34 PM »
That is a valid point.  There may be many whose work should rather remain anonymous.

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2005, 08:39:45 PM »
"TEP:
I hope that doesn't surprise you."

TomH:

Nothing on this web site surprises me and I doubt it ever will!  ;)

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2005, 08:42:15 PM »
Donnie,

No, No its "told so and so to plant those 500 pine seedlings" ...
 ;)

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2005, 08:49:53 PM »
All:

There's no question in my mind that digitalizing anything and everything of interest and value in this vein is the only way to go. Not only is it safer and preservative it overcomes the most problematic obstacle to all of this which on an on-going basis would be damage concerns through access and handling from researchers. Personally, I'd be more than willing to support any entity that'd be interested in getting involved in this but the ultimate goal is to construct the entire venture in such a way that ease of access would be the hallmark.

In my mind the most natural candidate would be the USGA/R&A. Would they be interested? Well that will probably be for us to find out shortly. I know if they saw the value in this sort of preservation and compilation the USGA probably has the wherewithal to fund it and house it.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2005, 09:27:04 PM »
 8)

give it to others and you'll loose control of the original idea..

charge for it piecemeal and you'll loose the "free access" that would promote its use

subscriptions for access.. maybe
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2005, 09:49:19 PM »
As I told Mark Rowlinson as dinner ended there's no particular reason to think, if presented correctly, the USGA/R&A shouldn't be interested in collecting, archiving, preserving all this. After-all it's the histories of the architecture of the playing fields of the game they say they're trying to "do good for"!!   ;)

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2005, 12:59:44 AM »
You guys can't even get started on a book about William Flynn. What makes you think your going to be able to set-up this grand institute of higher research?

Did any of you happen to see the movie, American Splendour?

Turn off your web browser and step away from the computer and get to it! Try using a typerwriter or pencil if you have to. Something that's not going to divert your attention from your intended projects that are no further along today then they were two years ago!

Golf Architecture Research Center.......Jeezzzzzzz!  ::)

Next thing your going to be telling me that the Center has a special rehabilatation wing for the Compulsive Internet User, called the Tom Paul Center for Internet Abuse. TPCIA for short! ;)


ForkaB

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2005, 01:39:39 AM »
The USGA idea is great!  They could house the archives in the Russian Tea Room.....

T_MacWood

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2005, 06:08:28 AM »
I spoke to the USGA this fall about the idea and they are definitely interested in the idea (and have been). In fact they are looking into digitizing parts of their collection. Of those who use their library and collection, a very high percentage is researching golf architecture. As a researcher in Ohio, the key for me would access and affordibility.

TEPaul

Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2005, 07:39:30 AM »
TommyN:

This idea is Mark Rowlinson's of England. We're just trying to help him. Wayne and I talked to the USGA's Rand Jerris about this kind of thing, at least for our material, about two years ago while we were at the USGA. Or I should say that Rand talked to us about some of the things the USGA was considering in that vein but at Far Hills. But at that time they were trying to unravel from the planned move to NYC and the Russian Tea Room.

Is it any wonder the USGA might blanch at suggestions like this when they hear the sarcasm of people like Rich Goodale on here?

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Golf Architecture Research Center
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2005, 07:56:19 AM »
Hey Wayne !

Have you talked this over with Karen Bednarski ? (sp)

Believe me, she can tell us what to do.  The Golf Collectors Society is the best source for bringing things together.

Willie