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Steve Curry

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Hob Nob Hill GC
« on: January 25, 2005, 06:58:15 PM »
Who wants to join?

It may be possible that this course sits overgrown and untouched.  Has anyone entertained the thought of restoring this classic?  I have in the last two days!  How much fun would it be to cut down some trees, put in irrigation, restore bunkers, sod, restore a clubhouse and have a new Devreux Emmet course?

 ;D

Steve
« Last Edit: January 25, 2005, 07:51:24 PM by stephen_curry »

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2005, 07:48:56 PM »


18 at HNH GC
« Last Edit: January 25, 2005, 07:50:11 PM by stephen_curry »

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2005, 07:53:59 PM »
16 HNH GC


Thanks to Tom MacWood for this fine piece of research and the photos.

Top100Guru

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2005, 10:56:28 PM »
Forgive me, but where is this "former course"?

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2005, 05:07:06 AM »
Salisbury CT

TEPaul

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2005, 07:29:07 AM »
"It may be possible that this course sits overgrown and untouched.  Has anyone entertained the thought of restoring this classic?  I have in the last two days!  How much fun would it be to cut down some trees, put in irrigation, restore bunkers, sod, restore a clubhouse and have a new Devreux Emmet course?"

Steve:

Do you know who owns the place the old course is on? Do they want to sell it or for how much? Does it appear the course was just left alone to go to seed?

If it's possible to buy it and restore it there may be a real similarity to HVGC's third or "C" nine that was let go to seed about 65 years ago and in the last five years the club brought it back and restored it.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2005, 07:37:08 AM »
Steve Curry,

regarding that curious foliage or plant material that adorns your posts here, is that a precious example of native Poa annua, or of cannibis?

Hob Nob Hills is in Salisbury? Let's go up there and meet some day when the snow melts.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2005, 08:15:05 AM »
Brad,

I suppose one can see which leaf makes them the most happy.  The reality is I was trying to find a new picture, as it seems the auto resizing no longer works and therefore I can't use my Eastward Ho photo.  The leafy star was the first thing that I found that seemed at all interesting that was already less than 65 x 65 pixels.

Last night I spoke with Tommy N and Tom Mac and we found the course on Terraserve.  The technology is amazing.  I now know its whereabouts and many of the features, corridors, greens, bunkers and the like still seem visible.  We should plan to meet there.  In the mean time I intend to stop by and count how many houses may be in the way and to do so local research.

Tom Paul,

It appears from the aerial that much of the course is just as it was left, possibly being hayed even.  I have not found anything yet as to the ownership?


Steve  

Steve Mann

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2005, 08:47:00 AM »
steve-

i know the property values in salisbury are very high.  is there a chance that any of this still exists?  if so, it is probably privately owned by a well-to-do person from NYC who uses it as a "weekend retreat" or "summer home", no?  many of the early members at olde kinderhook lived in the salisbury, ct area.  it was only about a 30 minute drive to the club from there.  i would be interested in seeing the property.  let me know what happens with your findings.
best,
steve

TEPaul

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2005, 09:33:14 AM »
Steve:

There's a full-blown 18 hole Flynn course at Eaglesmere Pa that's just lying out there fallow pretty much as it was left when they stopped using it about 70 years ago. Would you like to check that one out? Me, Wayne, the super and Merion president Bill Albertini went stomping all over that one about two years ago. When we were done we all looked like a bunch of kids who'd been in a "capture the flag" game!

Top100Guru

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2005, 10:12:33 AM »
I am in on a "capture the flag romp" in Salsiburry,,,,,,,

Steve Mann

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2005, 11:15:51 AM »
tepaul-

sounds like you guys had a good ole time!  where is eaglesmere in proximity to Philly?  who owns the land/course?  is it worth saving/restoring/remodeling?  would be interested to see if developers/architects start persuing this avenue a little bit more with the land values being thru the roof in most metropolitan areas.  have you notified my friend mr. ott of this old flynn finding?
best,
steve

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2005, 11:42:33 AM »
Steve Curry,

I would love to be a part of this Dev Emmet lost course expedition.  Please keep us informed of when this is going to occur.

Thanks,
Chris

blasbe1

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2005, 12:03:51 PM »
Please count me in as well, I've had a growing interest in Emmet's work for sometime now.  

I'm reminded of the GCA Golf Club thread, surely seems like a reclaimation/restoration project would be ideal for such a club if the proper course/land were found.

 

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2005, 12:15:45 PM »
Steve - When did the course go NLE? Is it possible that its demise might coincide with the opening of Salisbury School (which sits on a hilltop) in ~early to mid 1930s?

T_MacWood

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2005, 01:26:30 PM »
The gentleman who had the course built was I. Kent Fulton. The course was built in the midst of the Depression (1932-33), so whoever Fulton was, he must have been very wealthy (post stock market crash).
« Last Edit: January 26, 2005, 01:26:54 PM by Tom MacWood »

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2005, 01:37:35 PM »
I. Kent Fulton's wife was Elizabeth Warner Fulton and they had one son:  Wells Fulton whom was born in 1912.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2005, 01:48:04 PM »

Glen Rapoport

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2005, 02:35:14 PM »
Please count me on on the Salisbury romp.  The days are getting longer so the snow will be melting, although we got 4 or 5 more inches this morning.

Glen

TEPaul

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2005, 02:46:50 PM »
On this particular course who can answer the following?

It says on this thread that Hob Nob Hill was owned or built by an I. Kent Fulton. Under both Emmet and also Alfred Tull in Salsbury Conn it seems there were two courses by Emmet and Tull---The Fulton Estate Course (1933) and Hob Nob Hill (1934). Were these one and the same course, perhaps renamed? It also says in "The Architects of Golf" that Hob Nob Hill is NLE but that the "Fulton Estate Course" isn't. I realize C&W has mistakes in it and that it was last published fifteen years ago but is this course Steve Curry is looking at that's gone to seed Hob Nob Hill or the Fulton Estate course or are they one and the same? And if they aren't is The Fulton Estate Course still operating as it seems to imply in C&W, although publised 15 years ago? These courses both opened awful close to the end of Emmet's life too. Were these courses actually designed and built by Tull or Emmet or would that be impossible to tell since they were partners? If this course gone to seed turns out to be an Afred Tull course instead of an Emmet course would there be as much interest in it and restoring it, at least on here?


Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2005, 03:12:37 PM »
Tom,

When I get a couple of minutes I am going to type the text of the article that Tom MacWood sent me and post it.  It names Devreux as the architect and another interesting note is that he evidently didn't charge anyone to play the course.

I see now more clearly that there are houses on what we think is the property.  But if you drastically reduce construction and design fees funds could be applied to home relocation. ;)

Steve

TEPaul

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2005, 04:04:35 PM »
Steve:

Was The Fulton Estate Course and Hob Nob Hill one and the same golf course? If not the Fulton Estate Course certainly must've belonged to the Fulton's but Tom MacWood or somebody also said that an I. Kent Fulton owned or built Hob Nob Hill. If there were too courses those Fulton's were busy little clients, weren't they? So what are we looking at now---relocating residences to restore the old Emmet course? :)

pdrake

Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2005, 05:00:01 PM »
Is this a current overhead of the area in Salisbury........I spend some time up in that area (Limerock and north) and it would be quite interesting if this course could be uncovered.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2005, 06:55:18 PM »
That road is 41 North heading to Egremont Mass.  This course would be just a short distance North of the center of Salisbury.

Tom,

I believe these two courses would be one in the same.  But till I get to Salisbury and do a little research I can't be sure.  The aerial Tom has posted is what we presume to be the property.  It is in the direction that I was told a course is over there a "piece".

Steve

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Hob Nob Hill GC
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2005, 01:59:35 PM »
Here is the article from 1933 that goes with the pictures, I just finished re-typing it.

SOMETHING NEW IN GOLF
Read This Story of the Hob Nob Hill Golf Club
At Salisbury, Connecticut, and You Will Find It

By INNIS BROWN

Up in the extreme Northwest corner of the state, in the foothills of the Berkshires, lies Salisbury, Connecticut, and in Salisbury is the Hob Nob Hill Golf Club.  It is a new club, and likely you have never heard of it; that is, unless you happen to be familiar with this particular community, or else happen to be a personal friend of Mr. I Kent Fulton.  In either case, you have doubtless had an invitation to play it, and perhaps you already know the story.  Even so, you are in a small minority, and the story is distinctly worth broadcasting.
For some years, Mr. Fulton has owned a tract of more than three hundred acres of rolling terrain largely wooded, partly with fine old trees, arboreal patriarchs, and partly with newer growth of white birch, pine, hemlock, dogwood and laurel, which has sprung up over what was once farmland under cultivation.  In the back of his mind, he had for some time held a purpose of building a country home on this tract, the plan including landscaping of a large part of the acreage.  Also he is an enthusiast on golf, imbued with an enthusiasm which goes further than his own personal activities in the way of pursuing pars and birdies.
Contemplation of these two interests led to his formulating a definite plan.  The house he would build; why not build a golf course also, with the dual purpose of having it provide facilities for his favorite outdoor game and also blend in with the purpose of landscaping the property?  Indeed, why not?
Emmet, Emmet and Tull, well-known golf architects, were called in for a consultation.  They made a study of the property, and Mr. Devereux Emmet, senior member of the firm, and long an outstanding member of his proffesion, sat back, settled himself comfortably, and indulged in a wide infectious grin.  Here was an architects dream come true.  More than three hundred acres of land, rolling in contour, with wonderful soil underlaid with sandy limestone gravel, and abundantly wooded, to work with, and no restrictions other than that he should design a modern up-to-date course, and at the same time make use to the best advantage of the fine material at hand in producing also an attractive landscaping job as well.
This was back in the summer of 1931.  Plans were submitted and the architects and builders (The Grading Company Inc.) were instructed to get busy at once.  But there was one further consideration.  It was stipulated that all labor used in the construction job from first to last was to be drawn from among local workers.  In fact, one of the impelling purposes in persuading Mr. Fulton to have the work started at that time was to help solve the unemployment situation as it affected Salisbury and vicinity.  So the contract provided that not more than six men were to be brought in to do the work; the rest to be done by residents of Salisbury.
The course was completed and opened for play on July 4th of this year.  From the time that work was begun, there was a full co-ordination of efforts to give Mr. Fulton just what he wanted,  Landscape experts and foresters co-operated with the architects in achieving the best results possible in the removal of such trees and other growth as was necessary in actually designing and building the eighteen golf holes.  As soon as the tees, fairways and putting greens were outlined and cleared, the foresters cleared and landscaped adjoining areas.
There is a variation in elevations of the terrain over which the course is built of some two hundred feet.  Advantage of the higher elevations in affording some attractive views of the nearby hills and mountains was taken wherever possible.  And the careful process of selection in making the clearings left many of the fine old trees to decorate attractively the views in many places.  On many of holes, players are completely screened from the view of players on all other holes.
Meantime an oddly attractive club house has been built quite close to the first tee and ninth green.  It has an exterior of stone and split shingles with an interior of old beams and white pine paneling salvaged from an old barn on the place Local Norwegian timbermen who double in ski jumping in their leisure time, did most of this clubhouse construction.
At the official opening, Mr. Fulton invited a hundred or more of his friends to play the course.  The unanimous verdict of the field was that it was a most excellent golf course, and that the purpose of having the course add to the scenic beauty of the landscape had been abundantly achieved.
And one other thing.  There are no greens fees.  All of Mr. Fulton’s friends are welcome to play the course whenever they like free of charge at all, and this includes about all of the people in the community.  That’s why Hob Nob Hill is something new in golf clubs.  It is not Mr. Fultons private course even though he owns it lock, stock and barrel.  It is a course for his friends and the term takes in its widest significance in its interpretation of those who may play.
Efforts to have him talk of his purpose and the result are unavailing, except to the extent that he is pleased with the job and gratified that his friends are delighted at his generous gesture.  He is far too self-effacing to add anything further.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2005, 02:01:26 PM by Steve Curry »

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