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Paul Richards

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If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top 100
« on: June 07, 2003, 06:59:13 PM »
This is a quote from Bradley Klein's latest GolfWeek article, "Windy City abounds with top-notch design."

To which course was he referring? ;) ??? ;) ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Andrew_Roberts

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2003, 07:11:12 PM »
Skokie?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2003, 07:20:14 PM »
Ms. D'Angelo?

Ms. Sills?

It helps to know Paul's stomping grounds.   ;D

Andrew,

Skokie looks to already be on the North Shore.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Andrew_Roberts

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2003, 07:24:47 PM »
North, South what's the difference I made my stupid guess.

Thanks Scott for the heads up, I guess I didn't recieve the memo.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Brad Klein

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2003, 08:05:31 PM »
Beverly CC member: "if we were on the North Shore we'd be in the top 100"

Critic: "If Beverly were on the North Shore they wouldn't let you in as a member"
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2003, 03:50:30 AM »
The rest of the pertinent paragraph:

"Prichard is restoring another Ross layout, Beverly Country Club.  One Beverly member who helped lead the fight for restoration claims his course gets no respect because it sits on the seedy south side of town rather than on the wealthier North Shore area.

'If we were on the North Shore we'd be in the top 100,'
he said."

 ;) ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Will E

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2003, 05:01:26 AM »
How Skokie didn't make the top 100 is an absolute joke.

I can't wait to see Beverly after the restoration and have no doubt it belongs on the short list of Chicago's great courses. Top 100, not sure. Perhaps if Beverly was on the Northside and void of planes, trains, and automobiles it would be rated higher by some panelist that take surroundings into consideration.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2003, 05:04:41 AM »
Having grown up not far from 87th and Western I am trying to imagine dunes. Let alone the old lakefront. Heretofore, the only evidence of the original shoreline that I was aware of is in Lincoln park. Where there are a couple of plaques signifying the old shore. But after reading the description of the course, I anticipate having my jaw somewhere around my ankles for the first few holes.
Thanks for all the info, Paul.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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JakaB

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2003, 07:01:27 AM »
I havn't seen any of the bottom 90 of the Classic list but have played Barona on the Modern and Beverly...If Beverly is not top 100 Classic and Barona remains top 100 Modern the lists are not equal.   Where does it stop...where does the top whatever Classic equal the 100th best Modern...must be at the very least 150....could be 200...but thats from a guy who thinks RTJ courses of the early 60's are classics.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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David Wigler

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2003, 08:10:07 AM »
JakaB,

You are right.  Jonathan could give exact figures but my guess would be that the top 150 - 175 classical would all have scores that would put them in the top 100 modern.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Matt_Ward

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2003, 09:54:08 AM »
David W, et al:

What's really amazing is that how few people on GCA really understand how much the category of modern courses has become so much richer than just a few years ago. If you check out the lastten years or so I would say the gap between the classic v modern courses, especially towards the #50-100 has become much more narrower than many might believe. If you travel the country -- not just stay in one primary area -- you can see how that has happened through the works of a number of top flight architects and their stellar projects.

I don't doubt the very best of the classic are still ahead of a comparable listing of the modern but as you move away from the top 25 in each of those areas you'd be very suprised how a number of modern courses are still left off the GolfWeek list -- to name just one -- Oak Tree GC in Edmond, OK.

Last comment -- how Skokie fails to get the recognition it rightfully deserves speaks volumes of the people who rate courses for their inability to grasp the qualities the course clearly possesses. This must have been the same group of people who vastly ignored The Kingsley Club in MI.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2003, 04:21:22 PM »
Adam:

I'm looking forward to your visit as well! ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Mike_Cirba

Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2003, 06:37:55 PM »
The idea that one can compare the overall scores on the Golfweek Classic list versus the Modern list and make some determinations is erroneous.

Raters are asked to compare and rate courses only against their peers, so when one gives a modern course a 10, for instance, they are saying that it should be among the top 5 MODERN courses....not the top 5 of ALL courses.

Following that thinking down the line, by definition, there is NO actual comparison between the two lists and attempts to quantitatively do so are faulty because of the way that raters are asked to score.

For instance, Merion is not rated against Whistling Straits...one might rate Merion a "9" on the Classic List (meaning a ranking of 6-15), and Whistling a "10" on the Modern list (meaning a ranking of 1-5), yet believe that Merion is a better golf course overall.

Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: If we were on the N. Shore we'd be in the top
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2003, 02:53:58 PM »
Shivas:

Actually, it is my quote (except for that use of "seedy" that Brad mentions :-[).

His response was to another famous BCC member - the living descendent of Donald Ross! ;) ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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