Sub-100 yard holes

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Jeff,

As a player I have never found it interesting to tee up a tee shot and hit it with a wedge, or sand wedge.  Maybe I have not played the right holes, but nothing feels good about it, and I get no satisfaction out of hitting a wedge off a tee no matter how well I played the shot, it is nothing like playing a smart wedge off the fairway.

[JESII]

Kelly

Is that to say that you cannot see ever designing a hole of that length?

Jim

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Jim,

The way my thinking has evolved over my career, really even month to month many threads of thought have evolved and changed in ways that I would avoid saying never.  

Today, I would avoid purposely routing such a hole.  I wouldn't see it as a real plus, however, there are times you are confronted with situations that are less than what you hoped and that is when you really enjoy grinding out a solution or a challenge that you may never have reached before had you never faced it, and possibly like the results and become more comfortable with allowing it to happen on the next routing, but today, I do not rout thinking man it would be neat if I could find somewhere for a sub 100 yard hole, and that is borne solely out of my personal boredom with hitting a wedge off a tee, pick the same green site and it would be far more interesting to be asked to thread a 7 iron in there.

Saying never is not the right attitude for a designer because it sets an artificial boundary that you would not want to become habit.  Facing something that requires you to move out of a comfortable realm should be sought because it makes you push your own boundaries and for me it is the pushing of boundaries the disregard for rules and protocal that can make design much more energized.  the feeling that by pushing the boundaries you could reach the point of failure in the sense that public perception is you went too far is exhilirating, I do not mean pushing too far in the sense of sensationalism or bravado, quite the opposite.  that to me is what keeps design interesting, I mean nothing could be more depressing than to approach each project the same way, that is why once a course opens I feel I am miles beyond it in my thinking about the next project, and there is some little seed of an idea that will burst on the next project.  

[Brent Hutto]

The ninth hole on the third nine of my home course plays about 120 yards from the regular men's tees. During the winter I play from the senior tees and it's 90-something yards, slightly downhill, over a marshy area and to a large green that is severely sloped from back to front.

The challenge for me from the 90-yard tees is hitting a shot that goes the right distance without spinning. It takes very little backspin to suck the ball all the way to the front of the green. If you really wale away with a high-lofted wedge it's even possible to spin it all the way back into the hazard.

The prevailing breeze is across the hole so you end up needing a partial wedge shot, with no spin, the correct distance, allowing for the wind drift. When they put the hole on the back of the green the back fringe is a popular spot to end up but then it's hard to keep that first putt from getting away down the hill. All in all it's a fun hole to end the round on, especially if you end up needing a birdie to win the match and a par to tie.

[Tony_Chapman]

The 9th at Caledonia got a mention and it's a pretty fun little hole:



The drop shot 17th at Tobacco Road is pretty good too, but that hole should be blown up and they should build a good par-3 between 12 and 13, anyway.

[JESII]

Kelly

Thanks for that reply, your view on avoiding the placement of artificial boundries is nice to hear. I would imagine personal playing preferrences must play a role in the design process for most golf course architects.

Jim

[John Foley]

Kelly,

Loved the bold green contours you built at Morgan Hill. Everytime I see greens like that (especially holes like 1, 3, 10 & 17) I think a short (100 yrd) par 3 built around small moving  greens surrounded by hazards would work well.

Sort of if # 7 played to 100 yards, w/ some of the contours, danger all around would fit not only the land, but the client as well?

[Kelly Blake Moran]

I'm glad you like them John, thanks.  I agree that type of green, the 7th,  would work well, in fact the sub 100 yard hole probably would be the largest green on the course.  A green like #7 would work well at 100 yards yet I have hit 5-iron into it.  I also think of the 6th at NGLA at 131 to 141 yards could be challenging at sub 100 yards.  No matter the length, I saw two people putt into the back right bunker, at sub 100 that definately must be an element in the design.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kelly Blake Moran,

Does this mean that downwind you find no challenge, no interest, at # 7 at Pebble Beach ?  

Jeff Mingay,

I believe that the 10th hole at Inwood is less then 100 yards.

I also believe that it's the shortest hole in US Open history.

It has a neat double tiered green and Inwood sits on the water where it gets its share of WIND.

[Lloyd_Cole]

There is a downhill hole at Worthington (the highest course in MA, I believe) which when I played it, downwind, was wonderfully difficult. Myself and my opponent wereboth in the hay 30 yards through the back.  Not Pebble, but stuck in W. Mass it is a lot of fun. Not liking the idea of the very short hole is a strange one.. Kris Kristofferson has a song - 'If you don't like Hank Williams'. I guess there are some folk out there who don't...

[Kelly Blake Moran]

"I don't think Hank done it this a way"

I like Hank, Kris (The Outlaws), and Waylon.  I believe that used to be a type of music called country music.  It no longer exists today.

Pat,

I would probably knife it into the ocean! Bsides, according to Hogan I should probably hit a soft 9 iron.

[Andy Hughes]

I believe that the 10th hole at Inwood is less then 100 yards.
I also believe that it's the shortest hole in US Open history.
It has a neat double tiered green and Inwood sits on the water where it gets its share of WIND.

Pat, yup, neat hole, especially with the water just short of the green.
The one time I played Inwood, this hole seemed unaffected by the wind--is that unusual, is it normally windy?

[blasbe1]

Tyler,

Right! Another good short hole here in Canada I didn't think of: the 17th at Crowbush Cove.

Last time I was there I think that hole played about 117 yards max., uphill to a heavily contoured green surface hidden by dense, native vegetation. It's sort of a skyline green as well. You can only see the flagstick peaking over the bushes. The hole sits on a high ridge parallel to the ocean, too, and is thus subject to strong crosswinds. A good strike with a short club is a necessity - every time!

Funny, I've heard so many complaints about that hole and it's my favourite at Crowbush Cove! I told Tom McBroom that once, and I think he thought I was nuts! [Maybe I am?!]

The 17th is my favorite at Crowbush too.  Although I air mailed it the first time I played it, I found it consistently played shorter than the card yardage.  

Crowbush has by far been the biggest treat/surprise for me in terms of GCA quality vs. reputation.  Although highly ranked in Canada it is hardly on the radar screen in the US and it clearly should be.  For anyone on or near PEI it's a must play.

     

[blasbe1]

I believe that the 10th hole at Inwood is less then 100 yards.
I also believe that it's the shortest hole in US Open history.
It has a neat double tiered green and Inwood sits on the water where it gets its share of WIND.

Pat, yup, neat hole, especially with the water just short of the green.
The one time I played Inwood, this hole seemed unaffected by the wind--is that unusual, is it normally windy?

It's a great short hole and is fairly well protected by trees and by being on a more inland location on the course, I've played it about half a dozen times and don't recall the wind being a factor, especially when compared to, for instance, the major wind factor on 14 that sits directly on Jamaica Bay.  

[Andy Hughes]

It's a great short hole and is fairly well protected by trees and by being on a more inland location on the course, I've played it about half a dozen times and don't recall the wind being a factor, especially when compared to, for instance, the major wind factor on 14 that sits directly on Jamaica Bay.

Excellent point Jason, and quite a contrast in holes!  I just loved the 14th (if that is the short par 3 along the water with JFK to the right), both the hole and the location.
Eh, what the hell, I loved damn near the whole course!

[blasbe1]

[quote author=Andy Hughes quite a contrast in holes!  I just loved the 14th (if that is the short par 3 along the water with JFK to the right), both the hole and the location.
Eh, what the hell, I loved damn near the whole course!

14 is along the water, two of my favorite iron shots at Inwood are back to back, the approach to the short 13th and the tee shot on 14.  Inwood is a very good course that would benefit greatly, IMO, with some extensive tree removal.

 

[Gerry B]

Re: Scarboro's 11th -as a former member there I think it is an ok short par 3 but unfortunately does not stack up against  the other 3 all world one shotters which are all over 200 yards -including the 4th (Arnie was quoted as saying it was one of his faves) which i think compares with 7 at SFGC. We must not forget the 19th hole-a 138 yard gambling hole that has a better green complex than #11 as well.

I agree with Merion #13 and love #12 at Atlantic City as well which is  under 120 yards.

[Rob_Babcock]

I think the 14th at Doonbeg is perhaps is most incredible sub-100 yard hole I have played. That small sliver of flat surface, in front of the breakers, is the green and your target. There's a bit more room long and left, but not much.



The prevailing wind is pretty much directly in your face and so you find yourself searching for the "right" club. Shall I punch a half 6-iron to keep  it under the wind or hit a 9-iron and hope that it comes off the clubhead perfectly straight and holds its line? And even if you miss the green, in many cases you can still play your second from down below (long or right) or up above (short and left). Need I say, hitting the green is a triumph. Now that's what I call a challenging sub-100 yard hole.

I've played this hole at least thirty times in all sorts of conditions and feel the challenge each time.

Rob