Worst disappointment/value?

[PThomas]

first of all. I feel I should briefly introduce myself to the group (forgot to in my first topic re advice for Venice -- sorry)..I'm  Paul Thomas...a lifelong Chicagoan (it's 15 degrees here today!)...lurked around GCA for about 4 months before finally getting smart enough to register....43 years old, married to Helen, 3 daughters Julia , Lauren and Anna ages 12, 10 and 8, an 18-handicapper who's been playing since he was 15..while I also collect golf books, my biggest thrill is playing great/really good courses for the first time..some I've been fortunate enough to play:  Bandon and Pacific, Pinehurst 2, Pebble, Shoreacres, The Dunes, Lost Dunes, Mid-Ocean, etc....Love the site -- thanks Ran!!-- and look forward to meeting and playing golf with some of you

enough about me...saw someone's comment the other day about Troon North with the 40000 houses around it....I played it last Feb and stupidly payed almost $300 --- what a ripoff!!!!!!! That's the biggest disappointment I can recall regarding a "great" golf course, and wondered if others could share theirs so we might not make the same mistakes..another thought: can I course be a 7 or above on the Doak Scale with that much housing around it?  it spoiled the experience for me so badly that I think I have to say no

[TEPaul]

Paul Thomas, Huh?

That's fairly confusing for me to get my mind around but welcome to the great barroom brawl that is the GOLFCLUBATLAS.com discussion group from me anyway!

Thomas Paul

[GeoffreyC]

Paul- Housing track courses are usually fatally flawed for the distractions, the OB and the claustrophobic conditions.

One exception for me was PGA West Stadium course.  I found myself forgetting about the houuses and marvelling at the wicked tricks Pete Dye played with the golfers.

[Matt_Ward]

Paul:

Let me say that "in season" golf in southern Florida has got be somewhere near the top. Before some of you guys begin to bark I'm not referring to the rare "must play" layouts.

The snow birds are fleeced for their $$ and what do you get for your bucks -- the same-oh same-oh college level 101 design school with the pro forma out-of-bounds on one side to protect all those pigeons who bought housing on the course and on the other side the obligatory water hazard.

Couple that with the boring green complexes with formulaic bunkers that almost always are placed on the left and right side of the green entrance.

On top of that you have your basic flat-as-a-pancake site.

I know some people love this type of golf -- for me -- I would sooner give up the game if that was the reality I had to handle 24/7.

[ian]

Diasppointment has a lot to do with value, if you only have so much money to support your desire to see new courses.

King and the Bear, at PGA Village is the worst value I have seen to date. The golf is average, with the mix of two architects being painful at times. Couldn't they have at least found a common theme or style? When you take a price similar to TPC at Sawgrass or Ocean Hammock, you wonder why you wasted so much money.

On the other side, I think while expensive the Bandon Dunes Resort offers enough of a unique experience on top of exceptional golf to offer a great value. I think a great setting and experience is often worth a high price.


TWO Paul/Thomas/Paul's .....I'm afraid; very, very afraid!  

[PThomas]

wow -- sorry about the confusing name thing...Thomas -- do people call you by your last name (Paul) a lot?  I get called Tom (short for Thomas)...

I agree with Geoffrey about PGA West..the housing is not as close to the holes as at Troon --  maybe that's the key --  and Pete's design, especially the last three holes -- is better...no hole at Troon North jumps to my mind

re: what Matt said about Florida:  I've usually read good things about Southern Dunes, but then I've recently read that there's quite a bit of housing there too...

and thanks to Ian for the tip about King and the Bear

just thought of another big disappointment:  Blue Monster:
played there a few summers ago...and felt like all they cared about was getting my money....if a tour event wasn't there I can't imagine it would be the "big deal" it's made out to be

and one more, perhaps caused by familiarity with it and parkland golf in general:  Cog Hill #4

[Tom Renli]

If you are looking for value, Scottsdale/Phoenix is not the place in the winter.  I forget the exact number, but I saw an industry stat for the state that indicated the number of first and only time players at each course was extremely high.  As well, the green fee differential is more than triple depending on the time of the year.

Redanman, I strongly second your recommendation on the TPC Desert.  Not a great course by any means, but my decision is this easy:

* Drive 5 minutes, pay $35, walk, no houses.

* Drive across the city, pay $100 to $150, mandatory cart, OB lined housing track.

[pdrake]

I got wrapped into The Shattuck up in NH a few years back (they used to hold a Bruin event there).  The place was an absolute joke.......and I have heard it has only gotten worse.

My #2 worst disappointment/value was Doral........

[ed_getka]

Paul,
   Welcome to the site. Fortunately for you this site will eliminate those experiences for the most part once you get to know some of the guys here. I haven't played a single course that I was disappointed in since coming to this site. I don't golf anywhere without asking about the course here first. I tend to like quirky, fun type courses versus championship layouts (which give my 12 handicap game a big headache). Once you know the biases of the people making recommedations you will be a very happy golfer.

[Paul Carey]

Pretty easy for me.

Even though I did not have very high expectations for Muirfield Village it was very disappointing.  Too may houses which I did not see on TV.  Holes that were not any fun.  A pretty good golf course but it did not nearly meet the hype.  After that a prettty average clubhouse as well.  No fun from start to finish.

New idea...biggest surprise.  Lulu Country club in Philly.  18 fun holes.   It is certainly not a "great" course in terms of ratings but it is fun, fun, fun.  

[Lloyd_Cole]

About 1992 or 3, before I started reading about GC Architecture, and when I wasn't playing too much golf, a friend of mine got married in Miami. So I stayed at Doral and played the 'Blue Monster'. You don't need to be a course buff to know that that track is just awful. Dull and just a grind. The TV pylons are a permanent fixture and the resort as whole was the MacDonlads of golf. And it wasn't cheap. On the same trip we were invited to play Indian Creek (they got married in the clubhouse!). Chalk and cheese.

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

just thought of another big disappointment:  Blue Monster:
played there a few summers ago...and felt like all they cared about was getting my money....if a tour event wasn't there I can't imagine it would be the "big deal" it's made out to be

Thanks for scraping open some wounds that had almost healed.  I cannot remember what I paid (I have tried to block it out of my memory, I Think it was something like $160 during the offseason), but the people behind the counter treated me like crap, then they charge you $10 for the yardage book, and another $10 for some range balls.  OK while you have me bent over at the counter how about instead of $160 for the golf, you just charge me $180 and throw in the yardage book and some balls at the range, make me feel like I got something for my money.  Then when the vein on my neck was pulsating already, as I was just starting to hit my $10 balls they said they needed us to come down to the tee.  Seems they were sending groups out a little ahead of time.  Probably had a cancellation and wanted to make sure they didnt miss an open slot (opportunity to fleece some more unsuspecting golfers).

But all this aggravation was more than made up for when we got out onto Ray Floyds new (at that time) beauty which had like 200 bunkers, and apparently not enough room in the buget for one single rake, or any maintaince guys to at least rake them every few days.  Maybe they need to charge $300 and actually buy rakes for the course.

It was unreal!!!!!

[Joel_Stewart]

We have had this thread before and I still come to the same conclusion, Mauna Kea in Hawaii.  I just can't think of one redeeming value that course has.  

[Ken Fry]

Ian Andrew,

The King & The Bear is at The World Golf Village, not the PGA Village.  The three courses at the PGA Village are pretty darn good.

I once brought a group to Cog Hill #4.  My players were warned if it rains, even if the course is closed due to lightning, there are no rain checks.  That's a pretty harsh policy when each one could hit one tee shot and be out $150 if the course then closed.  For all the accolades Joe Jemsek received for his golf operations and his contributions to golf, I never understood how this policy was a "good" thing.

[pdrake]

and he wnders why he hasn't gotten a US Open at Cog.........

[Gary_K]

Paul,

I don't get the opportunity to travel the country and play a lot of big name courses.  One course I've played, out in your area, that I was disappointed with was Whisper Creek Golf Club of Del Webb Sun City in Huntley, IL.  I think it's a Billy Casper design and costs around $90.  The only thing memorable was teeing off with an iron or fairway wood on 3 of the 4 par 5's because they force one to lay-up.  Friendly staff and the course was in very good condition and would be a better buy at half the price.  

I still can't figure out why they have that deep bunker just before the water hazard on hole no.9.  Just let the ball roll into the hazard, take a penalty stroke, drop and hit three.  Instead, people try to carry the water hitting out of the bunker, go in the water drop and hit 4.  Just can't get people to hit it backwards out of a bunker.  (Including myself :-). )

Gary K.

[PThomas]

Gary -- your right, Whisper is a Billy Casper design..I played it once a couple of years ago, which is more than enough if it's up to $90 now and since it was about a 90-minute drive for me...an okay course, but about a 5 on the Doak scale

[Doug Siebert]

Wow, amazing what the "TV premium" is for the Blue Monster is now.  I played it once with my dad about 20 years ago, and I remember him complaining that it was $50 (this was during March...high season for them I assume)  The other courses at Doral were $30.

Of course it was worth it to me (not only because I wasn't paying) since I thought it was pretty cool to play a course I saw on TV, so I guess I used to be part of the problem  At least I was smart enough to recognize Harbour Town as a much better course when I played it the following spring.

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