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Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Waialae what happened ?
« on: January 14, 2005, 08:18:01 AM »
In my limited viewing yesterday I saw Waialae was listed as a Raynor design. How much Raynor is still left?

A_Clay_Man

Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2005, 08:34:47 AM »

Robert Kimball

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2005, 09:04:41 AM »
From the web site:

"The new 18-hole, over 7,000 yards long Waialae Golf Course displayed a new look in 1999 as PGA TOUR-designated enhancements were put in place for the PGA TOUR official event, the Sony Open in Hawaii."    ::)


Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2005, 09:16:03 AM »
From the web site:

"The new 18-hole, over 7,000 yards long Waialae Golf Course displayed a new look in 1999 as PGA TOUR-designated enhancements were put in place for the PGA TOUR official event, the Sony Open in Hawaii."    ::)



Who butchered the bunkers ?

Brian_Gracely

Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2005, 09:17:22 AM »
From reading the PGA descriptions, it sounds like there is/was at least a Short, Redan, Biarritz, Road Hole and Eden.  

Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2005, 11:38:41 AM »
Brian,

I will have to look for them this weekend.

mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2005, 11:51:23 AM »
Donnie, check the GCA advanced search. I think that George
Bahto may have written about Raynor elements (remaining)
last year.Good luck at the New Brunswick Open.

Tony_Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2005, 03:17:17 PM »
I found this on a Google search:

"The club also boasts a long and colorful history. The Territorial Hotel Company, which also owned the Royal Hawaiian Hotel and Moana Hotel in Waikiki, leased the former dairy land from Bishop Estate and hired internationally- known New York golf architect Seth Raynor to design the 18-hole course. Raynor was the protege of C.B. Macdonald, the St. Andrews-trained golfer/ designer who helped popularize the game in turn-of-the-century America. Raynor came to Oahu to draw up his design for the Waialae layout in November 1926, but died of pneumonia in Florida the following Febraury without seeing the completed course. His partner, Charles Banks, completed the project following Raynor's design.

Raynor selected famous holes from celebrated American and European courses as models for holes in Waialae. For example, the well-bunkered, par-three 8th hole which runs along the ocean is similar to the Redan hole at North Berwick, Scotland. The par-three 13th mirrors a hole at the Biarritz course in France. The St. Andrews 17th - the famed "road hole" that has been dubbed the toughest par four in the world - was the model for Waialae's par-five 10th, a dogleg with a severely bunkered green. And the green on the 161-yard 16th, the shortest holeon the course, is patterned after Mac-donald's renowned masterpiece, the National Golf Links of America in Southampton, New York."


Keep in mind the holes describe are as the "members" play the course. So, the Redan 8th is actually the 17th on TV.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 03:17:47 PM by Tony_Chapman »

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2005, 03:26:47 PM »
There is little if any Raynor left. My understanding is that it has not been there in a while. Bunkers were ruined years ago. Not as bad as what Donnie did to his course, but bad.:o

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2005, 03:55:48 PM »
Here’s some information about the Waialae course.

Seth Raynor laid out this course about a month of two of so before he died. Banks built the course.

It was built for in conjunction with the building of the Territorial Hotel Co’s Royal Hawaiian Hotel. An magazine article, Feb 1927, said: “Although it was not completed until after his death, the plans and models for the greens were all laid out by him before he left the island in December 1925 and no later changes were made.    ..........   The course now stands (1927) built as the final work of his genius - - built exactly as Mr. Raynor wished it to be”

I cannot tell you how many clubs have been calling their course “Raynor’s last design”   

So far I have about 15 courses claiming this.

I have an article actually written by him describing the holes on the course. “........... holes from St. Andrews, Prestwick, National, Piping Rock, Lido, Chicago and other ........ “

Original corse was about 6,600 from the long tee,  6,400 and 6,000 from the forward tees.

Someplace along the way the nine’s were reversed but here are a couple noteworthy “famous” holes to look for (GOOD LUCK!)

From the original routing: ... the original plan shows the place was a minefield of bunkering!!

#2 Eden - 160 (originally - now 11)  - across a ravine (how deep could it be?)

#3 looks as though it was a Double Plateau (orig 446)

#4 Raynor’s Pr Dog-Leg

#8 Redan - (now 17)

#10 Road Hole with two tee-boxes

#12 was Bottleneck at about 360

#13 Biarritz - (now 4) and only 203 .... was originally 220 from the middle of the back, the ONLY tee

#17 was originally a 2-shot Redan with what looks like a 90-yard wide landing area before it dog-legged to the right

something happened to a couple holes - looks like something was eliminated and something else added someplace else on the layout

The Short hole was #16 and is now #7

see what you can “find”

gb
If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2005, 04:38:03 PM »
For some reason, I think that the Rick Smith did the bunker work back in the late 90's.....
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

A_Clay_Man

Re:Waialae what happened ?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2005, 08:23:18 PM »
You could see a little bit of the Biaritz swale on todays coverage. It was the first green I saw, and when I saw the length of it, I knew immediately that this was likely it. Then they showed a side view of the collar and sure enough, you could make out a swale. maybe not as steep as it once was, but it was cool. The real lesson is that last year I was cursing the course , because of the trees influence on so many shots.

The distance today was 216.

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