Tillinghast in Kansas City, Swope Park

[mark chalfant]

Im  hoping visit this fall (2005).Swope  Park appears to have some nice terrain and it is hosting a USGA event.   Is anybody familiar with this Tillinghast design. Is the routing nice and are there some well designed greens? In terms of architectural quality, is Swope Park  or Kansas City
Country Club a stronger example of Tilly's work. Thanks.

[Tony_Chapman]

Mark - Weather permitting, I am hoping to play Swope Park during the last week of February. You never know about the weather this time of year though. I will take pictures and report back.

Swope Park is hosting the 2005 Women's Amateur Publinks. My brother played Indian Hills County Club in Mission Hills in the 1998 Nebraska, Kansas Junior Cup matches and it is quite good as well.

They do have a website, but no pictures: www.swopememorialgolfcourse.com

[Tom Renli]

I played Swope Park for the first time last summer.  In fact it was the Thursday of the US Open - 36 holes, watched the Open and had Aurthur Bryant's BBQ - a pretty good day.

I have not played KCCC.  The course is not real demanding or anything near a Bethpage.  It has zozia (sp?) fairways which are different.  I was a little disappointed with the conditioning, I expected it to be better given the USGA event scheduled for this year.  In the non Open sites, how far in advance does the USGA get invovled?

Finally, they did some work on the course in the mid 90s, more maintence and clean up type stuff vs restoration work.

[Daryn_Soldan]

Tony-
What's your brother's name?  I also played in the '98 matches at Indian Hills (for the good guys from Kansas of course  )but can't remember who all I played.  I'll agree with you that Indian Hills is a solid course.  A bit claustrophobic in a few spots but overall very challenging and a joy to play.

Mark-
Swope Park definitely has some interesting terrain.  It's been close to 10 years since I've played there but remember it as hilly and very scuffy.  Some cramped spots on the back nine with tall fences around tees to protect golfers from errant shots on other holes.  It got lots of play and was showing its wear.  Have to admit that I was a bit surprised when I hear that it would be hosting the WAPL.  However, everything I have heard recently points to a complete turn around as far as conditioning and maintenance go. I'll check with some friends who have been there recently to find out more.  Architecturally, I remember a few good holes but have to admit that I probably wasn't paying that much attention to GCA at that point and the conditions overshadowed other observations.  What was I thinking??

In my book KCCC is quite a ways above Swope.  But for $20-$30 Swope is a good deal.  Not sure about the amount of Tillinghast left at KCCC.  I know from looking at old course photos in the clubhouse that a lot of work has been done around some greens but I have no point of reference as to what was originally there.

-Daryn

[Allan Long]

Mark,

I used to live in Kansas and have played Swope Park, and it does have some interesting features. However, if memory serves, it is not an original Tillinghast design. I believe the course was originally designed by (and I know I am going to spell this wrong) James Dalgleish. I think Tillie came in and did some work there on one of his trips around the country for the PGA, so I am not sure how much could be attributed to him. I'm sure there is someone out there who could shed more light on the subject.

[Jay Carstens]

I believe the course was originally designed by James Dalgleish.

Allen- I interviewed another mid-west architect a few years ago, Floyd Farley,  and he credited Dalgleish with teaching him how to play and ultimately recommending he turn professional back in '26.  Floyd accompanied Tillinghast too during part of his tour but he didn't have much to say about him.  Do you know anything more about Dalgleish?  

[Allan Long]

Jay,

Dalgleish was one of the preminent professionals in the Kansas City area in the early 1900's, and probably one of the first to get involved with architecture. I believe he did the original Wichita CC which is now Macdonald Park GC, a
Wichita muni and one of the best (and underrated munis) in Kansas IMHO. I think he originally did Swope in the late Teens of the 20th Century.

I tried to find more on him in the Wichita library while I was there, but info was hard to come by. I don't have the Cornish/Whitten book handy, but as good a job as they did on architect bios, there is probably more there.

[John Kavanaugh]

Just played the front nine at Swope with one club. Wow. One of the finest courses I have ever played.

[Rees Milikin]

Just played the front nine at Swope with one club. Wow. One of the finest courses I have ever played.

A putter I assume

[John Kavanaugh]

17 deg hybrid. One of the toughest one club courses I ever played.

[MCirba]

Wow...kismet.


If my flights are on time I'm playing Swope Park this Sunday afternoon. 


If JAKAB is inspired enough to post about it, that gets me jazzed.  Rental clubs will add to the adventure.

[John Kavanaugh]

What time you playing?, I'll join you.

[MCirba]

John,


That would be enjoyable.



Flight gets in from comnection in ATL at 1136.  Taking cab from there.  Pro Shop tells me the place should be pretty empty because the Chiefs are playing. If all goes well I should easily be there by 1 p.m.  i'll message you my cell number.


Mike

[John Kavanaugh]

We are talking me and Cirba in a celebrity death match on one of the finest public courses in the country on a beautiful crisp November Sunday. Don't be late getting in on this or just come along and watch. Come on people, let's fill this bitch to the brim.

[MCirba]

John,


Bring it on, beyatch! 

[John Kavanaugh]

The match is oneish. I know there are some KC boys out there. Come join us!!! I'm bringing my robot caddie. 14 clubs for Cirba.

[MCirba]

Did I mention that I broke my right little toe not once but twice this summer, hurt my back a few weeks back tending to our ducks, had two sleepless nights this week worrying about the future of our nation, have a 6 am flight from Allentown tomorrow morning connecting through Atlanta, arriving in KC with a time change at 1136am local time and will be playing with muni rental clubs ?


I didn't, did I?   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Yeah, but (based on your FB posts) you are so pissed at Hillary losing, that you are likely to drive it 400 yards out of anger.....try to find golf balls with Trump face image on them, and you may hit it 500 yards, but just 400 with a wedge........


Not politics, just a joke!

[MCirba]

Beware the injured, grumpy golfer.   

[John Kavanaugh]

I see Mike and I meeting on a muni many hours from our homes one more small step our nation takes towards healing.

[Joe Bausch]

I see Mike and I meeting on a muni many hours from our homes one more small step our nation takes towards healing.

Is healing a synonym for armageddon?

 

[MCirba]

I'm just hoping we can get the round in before Trump starts pushing buttons.

[Jason Hines]

Sorry I just saw this, tied up this afternoon after traveling most of the week, I live across town from Swope Park and have yet to play it.  Last spring I met up with Adam Clayman, Daryn Soldan, Brandon Urban and we never made it out of the proshop because it was raining so hard.


Call ahead, my thermometer is reading 29° this morning and they may have some delays.


Let us know how it goes...

[MCirba]

In Atlanta doing pushups in the airport getting ready for my big death match with Mr. Kavanaugh.  After waking at 2am after a solid 3 5 hours of sleep, i've consumed enough coffee to really make my short game sharp. 


Looking forward JK...too bad you're unable to join us Jason.

[MCirba]

The crowds are just now milling out by the thousands as the sun goes down over Kansas City.


They seem still in disbelief at the spectacle they just witnessed and many are sobbing uncontrollably.