Yellowstone Club

[Lou_Duran]

Has anyone played this course by Tom Weiskopf?  According to the local (Dallas) paper, Yellowstone Club is a gated community an hour from Bosman.  On 22 square miles, it has its own ski mountain plus the golf course.  The initiation fee is $250,000, annual dues are $16,000, and to join you must purchase real estate there for $1 Million+.  Prospective members must have liquid net worth in excess of $3 Million AND demonstrate that they are not jerks.  Given these requirements, some would say that the developer would have an impossible time finding 10 qualified candidates.  Apparently, that is not the case with over 200 members and the four-year old project already in the black (the environmentally friendly irrigation system for the club cost a reported $17 Million).  Affordable or not, I got to take my hat off to the developer.  Now, where can I learn some manners and cop $3.25 Million?

[A_Clay_Man]

Lou, I've not playerd it, but I've heard it is just as hard to find, and very secure.  

Are you sure about the Black?

On a project like this, How does one determine if one is in the black ?

[Bob_Huntley]

Lou,

You wrote " Prospective members must have liquid net worth in excess of $3 Million AND demonstrate that they are not jerks."

How on earth can you find out if a prospective member is not a jerk? The only way that I know of, is to have him play a few rounds with some genuine enthusiast of the game.  

[Matt_Ward]

Lou:

A select few holes was open very late in '04 -- the bulk of the course (18 holes) will open sometime in July.

What's amazing about the facility is the full page ads that have been running the Weekend Section of the WSJ. I mean we are talking about FULL PAGE ADS -- for the national edition. That's some $$$$$.

I've also attended one of the marketing schmooze sessions at the NY Athletic Club and it was nicely handled to "wine & dine" potential new members.

The facility has private access to its own ski area -- they have part of the mountain -- impressive indeed! However, the facility did have to fork over a settlement to the EPA, I believe, for issues dealing with construction of the site.

Tom and Edra Blixseth who assembled the Yellowstone club property by exchanging parcels of land adjacent to Yellowstone National Park are also responsible for the highly exclusive and gated property in Palm Springs called Porcupine Creek -- the entrance way to the club is akin to the entrance way to the Bat Cave.

If memory serves -- the golf course will play roughly 7,200 yards and be a par-72. Weiskopf will also add his usual features including the driveable par-4.

[RJ_Daley]

http://www.theyellowstoneclub.com/images/summer/golf/rendering.pdf

I have to admit that I like the apparent routing depicted.  Too bad they don't provide more pictures...  I would like to know how much elevation change there is for green to tee walks.  It looks very walkable.  Weiskopf seems to use some interesting features like mid FW bunkering, fingers of wetlands and some sort of rough-hillock encroaching to hide LZs, and width to provide choices off the tee.  I like that in a golf course.  

But, alas, I wouldn't want to part with that much money (no matter how much I had) just to demonstrate to some self appointed clique of arbituers, that I'm no jerk.  Maybe they don't even like golf all that much, and are more hung up on the "security" of the enclave.  I could never join up with a posse that put the selectiveness of the game over the inclusiveness and socialability of the game, so to speak.  If I had that kind of scratch, I have no doubts I could find 5 clubs in very diverse regions or countries to join, that are as good or better golf designs, have a more worldly membership, and longer golf season.  

[A_Clay_Man]

Dick, It seems to me, they are selling wide open spaces. No clutter, no hassles. No worries if Marx turns out to be right.

[cary lichtenstein]

I guess under the "no jerk rule", the Donald wouldn't qualify for membership

[RJ_Daley]

Adam, you mean Groucho don't you... "I would never belong to a club that would have me as a member".

[grandwazo]

http://www.robbreport.com/Articles/Sport/In-Your-Own-Backyard.asp

Interesting background on Porcupine Creek....

[Larry_Rodgers]

Where on earth did the figure of $17 million come from? As the designer of record, I can say our budget was less than 1/10 that much. The developer Tim Blixeth is a good guy and prospective members must pass mr Blixeth's staff reviews before they are accepted.

[Craig Sweet]

Didn't they buy a bunch of land from the Boyne Company or am I thinking of Moonlight Basin?

Boyne owns Big Sky and it has had financial problems from the get go. As I understand it they sold off a big chunk of land to either the Yellowstone Club or Moonlight to keep things solvent.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Lou,
To paraphrase George Costanza the Seinfield show, The Jerk Store called, and I told them you were out....

Don't bother with the place Lou--too many Hollywood celebrities and they are all fellow Democrats! That is unless your finally coming to your senses? (Which I doubt)

[Larry_Rodgers]

I am not sure about the property exchanges, but the irrigation system did not cost $17 million

[Lou_Duran]

I have always been leary of anything in print.  The $17 Million for the irrigation "project" looked ridiculous to me, but so did a $40,000 front door that a friend of mine had installed in his house.

I am unable to link the "Los Angeles Times" article which was reprinted in the business section of Sunday's "Dallas Morning News", but below are some of the contents, verbatim.

"Yellowstone Club officials counter that only 20 percent of its 13,400 acres are slated for development.  They point to a project they initiated in 2001 that irrigates the golf course with treated sewage that was destined to be dumped into the Gallatin River.  The irrigation project cost $17 million, half of which was paid for by the club."

'I'm not impressed by a person's money' "says Mr. Blixseth, who with his wife, Edra, is beginning to turn a profit on their $200 million investment in the resort."

"Thirty-six members have completed homes...."

"About 50 houses are under construction."

"Stephen Burke, the president of Comcast Corp., is planning to break ground this spring.  Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates owns the two lots next door."

"About 200 millionaires have joined so far".

Even assuming that all the figures are exagerated proportionally, the developer appears to be well in the black-

initiation fees- 200 members @ $250,000 = $50 Million
required property purchases- 200 @ $1 Million* = $200 Million
* property prices range from $1 to $10 Million

Tommy,

By definition, there can't be any Dems in the membership.

As to bothering with the place, with a net worth short of the minimum by five or six zeros, I can only dream.  I inquired as to extra credit and a scholarship for being such a nice guy, a student of the game, and a true environmentalist, but received a very polite letter back saying that they doubt that the project would meet my very exacting standards.

I just thought that this was an interesting development in light of the concern that many on this site share regarding affordable golf.  Like Dallas National, an ultra-expensive club for this part of the world, the Yellowstone Club appears to have done quite well.  Maybe golf is heading back to its roots in this country when it was a game for the rich.  At its highest levels, this appears to be the case.  The Wild Horses, Rustic Canyons, and Pine Dunes of this country appear to be too far and few in between.  

[JohnV]

"Stephen Burke, the president of Comcast Corp., is planning to break ground this spring.  Microsoft Corp. co-founder Bill Gates owns the two lots next door."

That might be the scariest part of this story.  Comcast and Microsoft getting together would really screw up the world.

[cary lichtenstein]

Yeh, but maybe these guys will throw in free cable and a computer if you buy a membership

[David_Tepper]

To paraphrase Warren Buffet,

"There may or may not be class warfare in America, but there is little doubt who is winning." (!!!)

[Scott_Burroughs]

Here's the course rendering from the above link:

[DMoriarty]

"I am unable to link the "Los Angeles Times" article which was reprinted in the business section of Sunday's "Dallas Morning News", but below are some of the contents, verbatim.

"Yellowstone Club officials counter that only 20 percent of its 13,400 acres are slated for development.  They point to a project they initiated in 2001 that irrigates the golf course with treated sewage that was destined to be dumped into the Gallatin River.  The irrigation project cost $17 million, half of which was paid for by the club."

Well . . . not quite verbatim . . .

"They point to a project they initiated in 2001 that irrigates the golf course with treated sewage from Big Sky that was destined to be dumped into the pristine Gallatin River. The project cost $17 million, half of which was paid for by the club."  (my italics)

I don't think they are talking about the course irrigation plan,  they are talking about cleaning neighboring Big Sky's water then piping it up probably close to 1000 feet vertical to supply the course irrigation.

By definition, there can't be any Dems in the membership.

Not, so.  Peter Chernin (also highlighted in the LATimes article) is a Democrat and a big contributor to the Demo Party despite his employment for right wing zealot Murdoch.    Other members are Democrats as well.  You see Lou, part of being a Democrat is looking past your short term self-interest . . . Just because Dems oppose programs that make the rich richer and the poor poorer doesnt mean that some of them havent benefited greatly.  

 I inquired as to extra credit and a scholarship for being such a nice guy, a student of the game, and a true environmentalist, but received a very polite letter back saying that they doubt that the project would meet my very exacting standards.

No wonder you didn't get in . . . you lied on your resume.

[Lou_Duran]

DMoriarty,

I can't believe you took me to task over this.  What's eating at you that you can't let a couple of harmless, maybe even humorous comments between Naccarato and me just pass?

Regarding my quote from the Dallas Morning News, IT IS verbatim.  If I could scan the article and post it I would have.  What you added in italics is not in the article I referenced, so perhaps the News excerpted the Times.  Regardless, the system that is being used to irrigate the course did cost a bundle of money, and if you believe the paper, it cost the developer a half of that bundle.

"No wonder you didn't get in . . . you lied on your resume."  Are you saying that I am not a nice guy?   Fighting words, my legalistic, wacko friend!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Lou, I thought David's post was pretty funny actually, and took it that he was just chiming in.

[DMoriarty]

DMoriarty,

I can't believe you took me to task over this.  What's eating at you that you can't let a couple of harmless, maybe even humorous comments between Naccarato and me just pass?

Lou,

Like Tommy, I thought my comments were mildly funny.  Plus you cant expect me to pass up chiming in when the discussion involves Montana, can you?

Regarding my quote from the Dallas Morning News, IT IS verbatim.  If I could scan the article and post it I would have.  What you added in italics is not in the article I referenced, so perhaps the News excerpted the Times.  Regardless, the system that is being used to irrigate the course did cost a bundle of money, and if you believe the paper, it cost the developer a half of that bundle.

I thought that might be the case, but your post is written as if you are quoting the LATimes article . . .  You say "I am unable to link the 'Los Angeles Times' article which was reprinted in the business section of Sunday's "Dallas Morning News", but below are some of the contents, verbatim."  The way it is written I couldn't help but think you had tried to link to the LATimes article so you copied a portion of it.  The part about the Dallas paper was just an adjective clause . . . if the last section refers to the Dallas paper then your sentence is not a sentence.  Oh well, no matter.  What was that you were saying about the meaning of words the other day?

I was responding as much to Larry Rodgers (who really did the irrigation) as I was to you,  trying to clarify to what the original article referred.  But perhaps he was in charge of the whole project, I really don't know.
 

Are you saying that I am not a nice guy?   Fighting words, my legalistic, wacko friend!

Did I say that?  Perhaps you misunderstood.  

[Andy Troeger]

Anybody played this one in the last couple years since this thread originated?

[Matt_Ward]

Andy:

I played the course back in 2006 and the layout is quite fun --given the nature of the membership the course is more about golf that is rather playable -- not the intense variety.

The layout is situated on rolling terrain and just getting to the entrance of the course property nearly requires a four-wheel vehicle.

The elevation makes the ball fly far and even with the first two par-4's playing in the range of 500 and 470 yards respectively, they are both short holes even for those with some length.

Weiskopf has added a few features from past designs -- the driveable short par-4 concept is alive and well here, you also have some neat additions -- the dog-leg right 10th with a blind drive over the hill is quite good and certainly entertaining.

The split green at the short uphill par-9 9th is also well
done -- especially when playing the green on the far right side.

Yellowstone is not a ball buster type course. It has wide fairways and the greens are softly contoured. Given the nature of the membership it fits well for the clientele there.

The views are spectacular -- especially when standing on the 1st tee. GCA junkies will likely give the course a pass -- I liked it for what it's meant to be and for those it will seek to entertain.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new Nicklaus layout at Moon Basin -- not far from where Yellowstone Club is situated. Likely that won't happen until sometime in '09.

[Andy Troeger]

Matt,
Thanks for the thoughts. If you've played them, how do they compare to Three Creek Ranch, Snake River Club, and Headwaters that are closer to Jackson, WY? I'm attending a wedding there next year and may play a couple times with those seeming to be the best courses in the area by all accounts.

Looks like Yellowstone Club would be at least 2-3 hours from Jackson, anybody able to verify that?