The world's true HIDDEN gem??

[Jack_Marr]

Yes, they have deffinately been mentioned here before, years ago too.

[TEPaul]

"TEP
Finegan certainly does not know all the worthwhile courses in GB&I.  
You have to come to GCA for that!"

Paul:

Perhaps. It would certainly seem so after looking through the detailed responses on this thread about a course Jim Finegan felt must be far more hidden from the world than apparently seems so in this world of GOLFCLUBATLAS.com!

Finegan has done pretty well with his course profiles in his golf course travelogues of Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland.

But lets not try to take this example into the realm of whose the best researcher of courses in Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland because there probably are some on here, including you who are better at the details of architectural research but if you want to give brief architectural and course profiles of many courses in those regions that so many have obviously used and enjoyed from Finegan you have a long, long way to go to catch Jim Finegan.

And I sure hope I don't see some snide remark by Tom MacWood or even you that this proves that Jim Finegan is weak on research or historical research on something like the book he wrote on PVGC.

[ForkaB]

Paul

"Sky Summonte" (sic) still exists and you might get him for a caddy if you visit Dornoch.  What I can't remember is the name of his travelling companion on that Odyssey which included St. Patrick's.  I'll ask him next time I see him.

Tom P

You must realise by now that things come to Philadelphia anywhere from 5-25 years after they happen in the rest of the world.

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

I like Finegan's writing!  PVGC...?  Where did that come from?

There are several contributors on this board who know more about golf in GBI than Finnegan.  They've lived there.

I have a long way to go, eh?  If a photo's worth a thousand words then he's miles behind!

Rich

Special Relativity, Philly style.

[TEPaul]

"If a photo's worth a thousand words then he's miles behind!"

Paul:

Wrong again! It's books that're worth thousands of words, or at the very least one of my standard posts---definitely not a photo!

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

I just took umbrage to your assertion:

"So one should probably assume that over the years in those locales there’s probably almost nothing of any worth that Jim hasn’t seen or is unaware of in the way of golf courses."

[Willie_Dow]

Yes Tom - that luncheon with Jim was a true "HIDDEN gem".

It was also fun to hear Jim tell of his membership at Llanerch in the early 50's, where he won the club championship in '53.

I was reading Wilbur Germain's history of Llanerch, which was originally Delaware County Country Club.  In January 1902 an invitation was sent to a number of golfers in the city to enlist their support "in the maintenance of a semi-public course on West Chester Pike, within easy access to the city by rail and trolly."  In 1908 the club name was changed to Delaware County Field Club, thence in 1911 it combined with The Athletic Club of Philadelphia, and operated under that name.  This merger was terminated on September 14, 1914, and the name changed to Bon Air Country Club when they changed the greens from sand to grass.

Dr. Thomas M. Fitzgerald bought land between 1915 and 1918 at which time he owned the entire club and surrounding property.  May 18,1919 he chartered Llanerch, and expanded the property by leasing another 50 acres.  He hired Alex H. Findlay to redesign the entire course and expand it to 27 holes.  All nines finished at the clubhouse.  This opened in 1928, a year before Dr. Fitzgerald died.  His wife inherited the club and kept it going until she died in 1938, and the proceeds of the estate established Fitzgerald Mercy Hospital.

Mr. James A. Devine purchased the entire 27-hole course in 1941, leasing it all to the club for five years.  When the club decided to buy in 1946, they only kept enough land for 18 holes. 119 acres were put in the hands of Mr. J. B. McGovern, a local golf architect and an associate of Donald Ross, operating Ross's Wynnewood, PA office beginning in 1916.  According to the 1949 Collection of Ron Whidden, McGovern is credited with remodeling Gulph Mills (R. 1946 solo).  Gulph Mills was later changed by William and David Gordon (R.7 1958)
and Robert Trent Jones (R.4 1966).

[RJ_Daley]

When I saw the name of the lady architect, Ms O'haire, I had to wonder if there is any connection to the other Ms O'hara, who herself is president of the Glengarriff Golf Club and hotel, in West Cork.  

I couldn't find any pictures of that course except one on their hotel website, that doesn't look too remarkable, unlike the President of that club, Ms O'hara herself, one of the most beautiful women ever.

[Jim_Kennedy]

RJ,
Ms. O'Haire was an assistant pro at Royal Co, Down. She is mentioned in this link along w/more photos: http://www.stpatricksgolflinks.com/history.htm
I don't know if she is related to the O'hara you mentioned.

[Mike_Sweeney]

http://www.stpatricksgolflinks.com

Jim,

Thanks for that link. Wow, that slide show is great. I would like to get there next summer. Here is the true minimalist:

[RJ_Daley]

Some one ought to rename one of his own, Brother Eddie's Golf Club...

He'd probably be offended if we called him St. Eddie the Minimalist.

[Bill Gayne]

Jack,

Is it possible that the course was laid out in a rudimentary fashion in 1996 to be ahead of the of the Special Areas of Consevation laws from the EU that went into effect in 1997? It's my understanding that these laws have made golf course development exceedingly difficult.

Bill - this is what I've heard, yes, although I didn't know the details of the bill or the date. I'm surprised someone with a lot of money hasn't looked in to the place.

Jack, it is really surprising given how difficult it is to permit a new links course and given how many people are trying. It should be interesting to see if raw links land at Kilshannig Cross, Inch, or Bartra Island are ever developed.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
Really  

The view from the 17th tee on the Maheramagorgan course is quite spectacular.

You're welcome

[RJ_Daley]

Is it any wonder why Eddie died that year?  The weather at the last of the sodding did poor Eddie in!




If you haven't gotten on the website yet, take the History link photo tour!  Can you believe the sodding procedure.  I've seen "sprigging" but this takes the cake.  I had no idea they went about it the way the photos depict.  What sort of species of grass is that - common fescue or a mix of some sort of seaside species and cultivar unique to the area?  I imagine there is no irrigation on the course.  But, can any of the supers who look at this sodding process give an opinion as to what species and cultivar of seed they'd attempt to establish with just that climate, and plenty of time to grow it in.

[Paul_Turner]

What an amazing place!  Thanks for the last link.

I don't particularly care whether the courses make the best of the land.  There are clearly some cool holes and they look worth a visit just for the time warp appeal.  I think you would feel a bit like old Bernardo D when he visited Narin and Portnoo about a century ago.  

Of course, I'm sure one day a modern architect will totally redo the courses and we'll have a truly great course or two.  But until then, I like the way it looks now;  courses that will test how much of a "purist" you really are!

PS

What about that digger in the pond?  

[RJ_Daley]

I'm just mesmerized by that last photo I posted.  It should have a caption:  Com'on then lads, only a hunnert spriggin acres a'sod clumps ta go... one feckin pitchfork at a time!

Brian Scheider, are you getting all this?  You probably didn't use this pure and minimal of a turfing-grow-in method down there in Barneygoogles.  A bunch of sissyboys that lot of seed spreaders away in the penal colony.

[Dan Kelly]

It would appear that John McPhee is a considerably more HIDDEN gem than St. Patrick's is!

I think McPhee would've liked Mr. Hackett. Might have made for a helluva profile.

[A_Clay_Man]

Some one ought to rename one of his own, Brother Eddie's Golf Club...

Could E. Hackett

[TEPaul]

"Tom

I just took umbrage to your assertion:

"So one should probably assume that over the years in those locales there’s probably almost nothing of any worth that Jim hasn’t seen or is unaware of in the way of golf courses."

Paul:

Why would you take umbrage about that? Finegan has been over there perhaps three score times over the decades  scowering for all kinds of golf courses to write about. The golf world would probably be an even better place if we had about three score more Jim Finegans!    

[TEPaul]

Jim Finegan mentioned Hawtree's position or disposition about this golf course. I can't quite remember what Jim said but it sounded like Hawtree isn't about to jump into anything there any time soon but who knows. We also asked him if Dermot Walsh may be interested in selling and he didn't seem to really know. What did he say about that Wayne and Bill?

DanK:

Thanks for the comprehensive background on the restaurant story from the NEW YORKER about the mysterious restaurant within a 100 mile radius of NYC (that was the lead-in to this thread), and John MacPhee. Those guys were something with words and the way they approached things in those days, weren't they? As for the food critic of the NY Times back even in the 1970s I would've thought it was the famous Craig Claiborne even back then.

I can't really remember exactly where these things in the back of my mind from the old days up there came from but it might have been mentioned in something like Clairbornes's obituary in the NY Times about a time he reviewed a restaurant in cognito---the chef found out it was him and rushed out of the kitchen and asked him how he found the veal. Claiborne retorted; "Actually I found the veal quite incidentally underneath the potatoes!"

[Dan Kelly]

As for the food critic of the NY Times back even in the 1970s I would've thought it was the famous Craig Claiborne even back then.

If I remember correctly, the famous Craig Claiborne was the Times's famous food writer; the famous Mimi Sheraton was the Times's famous restaurant critic.

[moth]

I was there the year before last and it is much more exciting land than nearby Rossapenna. From my discussions with Rosapenna's owner's brother (pub owner), he said they slapped the last 18 holes toegether in a hurry to get 36 holes in the ground so that it would be existing before changes in planning approvals expected from the European Union.

Given that they did not expect many more Irish Links courses to come along after this, this would make the property a lot more valuable. I believe the expectation was always to come back later and create something a bit more special when the finds permitted - probably under another owner.

[TEPaul]

"If I remember correctly, the famous Craig Claiborne was the Times's famous food writer; the famous Mimi Sheraton was the Times's famous restaurant critic."

Dan:

Really? Do you think maybe Craig and Mimi had a bit of an on-going turf warfare situation at he offices of "All the News that's fit to print"? (or is that the London Times?).

Mimi;
Look Craig, you encroaching bastard, you can write about Oysters Rockefeller but if you dare write where you ate them you're going to see some cat's claws you didn't bargained for.

Craig:
Mimi, you hustling slut, get out of my office and back in some roach infested kitchen where you belong!

Sulzberger:
Now, now, children, get back to work!

[Paul_Turner]

"Tom

I just took umbrage to your assertion:

"So one should probably assume that over the years in those locales there’s probably almost nothing of any worth that Jim hasn’t seen or is unaware of in the way of golf courses."

Paul:

Why would you take umbrage about that? Finegan has been over there perhaps three score times over the decades  scowering for all kinds of golf courses to write about. The golf world would probably be an even better place if we had about three score more Jim Finegans!    

I'll take your word for it Tom.  But if the most Hidden gem Finegan can come up with is St Patricks...and we've all already heard of it...well

[TEPaul]

Willie Dow:

Unfortunately, all the copies of my Gulph Mills G.C. Design Evolution 1919-1999 book are gone now or I'd give you one but I'd be glad to show you specifically what McGovern, Gordon and RTJ did there, when and why.