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Patrick_Mucci

Re:How do you beat a golfer who's better than you?
« Reply #125 on: January 09, 2005, 05:13:35 PM »
TEPaul,

Perhaps you missed the statement where Jim said he "was pure "gamesman"".  and "very well known for his gamesmanship"

What does that mean to you ?

I know what it implies to me, and it's not an adversary who engages in occassional ribbing.


JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you beat a golfer who's better than you?
« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2005, 11:07:24 AM »

Jim Sullivan,

I did take your remarks regarding Bill Hyndman and "gamesmanship" in a denigrating context.
If that wasn't your intent let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding or a difference of opinion on the meaning of the word, "gamesmanship".

Pat

Fair enough, I am glad to see there are people around so interested in defending Mr. Hyndman. If I were in that position I would react the same.

Gamesmanship is defined in the dictionary as:
Main Entry: gamesˇmanˇship
Pronunciation: 'gAmz-m&n-"ship
Function: noun
1 : the art or practice of winning games by questionable expedients without actually violating the rules
2 : the use of ethically dubious methods to gain an objective  
These certainly support your defense of him and require me to rethink the term because I don't think this definition represents his techniques in any way.

I'll relay an incident I witnessed and to this day am amazed at its effectiveness:
In our section each club firleds a team of 12 in the Suburban League Matches and in the top bracket there are four sets of four teams who play in round robin format to determine their winner. At the end of those three matches the four winning teams play each other with three members of each team playing at each club with each person playing a math against one member of each of the other three teams. Big Bill was playing in the #1 slot at HVCC against three other very top players from the area and I was caddying for him. At the time he was about 75.

Big Bill had the honor on the 12th tee, which is a 410 yard hole with a creek running diagonally across the fairway. It is about 210 to carry on the left and about 240 on the right. There was a light wind in our face, just enough to make you think about the creek if your game was a little off that day, but probably not enough to make it a major factor (It was about 15 years ago though, for the technology perspective). There is an option to lay-up short of the creek to the right side leaving an approach of 190-210 uphill slightly to a tough green.

He starts with his driver and just before he is set to hit he backs away and makes it clear he is not sure if he can carry the creek. He then resets and backs away again, this time coming over to me to change clubs, he takes his two-iron to lay-up. After we discuss where he should aim (probably because he has never laid up on this hole before ;)) he sets up and then backs away saying he was pretty sure he could carry with his driver. As you know, even at 75, he was every bit as long as most top amateurs around and on this particular day was as long as his opponents. After another balk with the driver he settles on his three-iron and hits a perfect lay-up in the right-center fairway, short of the creek about 200 from the green. This whole process probably took about three minutes and the other three sprayed there drives wildly and when he easily knocked his three-iron on the green and made par to win the hole from two of the three guys it was clear to me what was going on back on the tee.

He never let on that the confidence he had in his own ability to hit the green with a three-iron gave him an advantage over his opponents which he could exploit by making them feel like the tee shot was a much greater risk than it actually may have been. The fact that each of them felt compelled to attempt to carry a creek which, they now thought, might be difficult to carry so as to leave the shortest second possible is the reward for this three minute act on the tee. I see this as a higher form of gamesmanship than the typical stuff you may have been imagining when I made those early statements, but make no mistake this is a form of gamesmanship.

I have spoken to several individuals throughout the last 10 years or so about Bill Hyndman and every one of them hold him in the highest regard as a gentleman, but they also recognize his use of similar type tactics to the one mentioned above. That was in large part the thrill of playing against him, if he wasn't using any of these techniques it meant one of two things, either he didn't need to or he wasn't interested enough in the match to worry about it. I don't think any competitor would want to admit either of those options.

Jim

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:How do you beat a golfer who's better than you?
« Reply #127 on: January 10, 2005, 11:13:27 AM »
Back on topic,

I don't remember ever beating a better player than I in a head to head match. I have however lost several times to players I felt I was better than and the easiest explanation I can think of is they kept pressure applied to me. They did this by consistently hitting quality shots that would force me to be aggressive if I wanted to win that particular hole. The reality is that if I had simply played patient STEADY golf I would eventually prevail because, by definition, the better golfer will falter less.

This of course is only truly relevant in matches of fairly closely matched individuals.

Sully