Hoylake - worthy of its place on the rota?

[Keith Durrant]

Having played Hoylake a couple of years ago, when there were murmurings of it returning to the Open rota for the first time since 1967, we were offered a discounted green fee as new greens were being layed on the 17th and 18th holes.

With the long awaited confirmation that it will host the Open in a couple of years, has anyone played it recently with the changes? From what i could see, the new greens had some tremendous undulations and were slightly out of character with the other greens coming home (which are mainly flat).

Any other thoughts on what the golf pro world will make of it all?

[Paul Turner]

Should be interesting to see what the pros make of Hoylake.  The old 17th was a great strategic hole somewhat like the 17th on The Old Course, who knows why the powers removed it?  Having that hole removed and no OB at the 7th is a real shame, hardly "An Excersise in Fear" as described in The World Atlas of Golf.

"Rottcodd" (your name from Mervyn Peake's masterpiece?)

[Mark_F]

Surely if any one course is unworthy of its place on the rota, it is... The Old Course.

Better still, why not get rid of Turnberry, Troon and Birkdale whilst we're at it, and add Portrush and Porthcawl, so it is a true "British" Open?

[Paul Richards]

rottcodd:

I have played Hoylake both before and after the changes.  The last two holes are indeed worthy of this championship course and, I, for one, believe Hoylake deserves to become part of the Open rota once again.

[Keith Durrant]

yes, i have crawled out from Gormenghast

To clarify, is the 17th at Hoylake still the same hole, with the road very close to the side of the green? I wondered how they would control the crowd around there...must be a tough shot into the wind.

As far as the rota goes, I think it's great that it is expanded to at least 9 courses: TOC, Muirfield, Troon, Turnberry, Carnoustie, Birkdale, Lytham, St Georges, Hoylake. I think TOC has got too uch exposure lately.

Any wouldnt it be fabulous to see it played at Portrush or County Down? Anyone know whether these courses make efforts to get on the rota?

If the Amateur could be held at Portmarnock, why not the Open?

[Paul Richards]

rott:

The 17th and 18th holes have been redone and other changes to the course have been added to try to challenge today's technology.

[Keith Durrant]

Paul, the website notes changes on the following holes - brings back memories of how good this course really is. I played it on a relatively calm day, cant imagine how tough it is when it blows.

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/3rd.htm

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/5th.htm

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/12th.htm

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/15th.htm

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/17th.htm

http://www.royal-liverpool-golf.com/18th.htm

[TomL]

Played it several times at Xmas.  The most obvious changes have already been mentioned ie. new green at the 3rd, new tee at the 12th, new greens at 17 and 18.  The other less obvious changes are that I am sure they have put in a new tee at the 9th and the bunkers, which are quite significantly deeper than 2-3 years ago.

The best of the new features is the new Championship tee at the 12th which has been carved out of probably the biggest sandhill on the course, lengthening the hole by approximately 50-60 yards and giving a panoramic view of the hole and the final 6-7 holes.

How will it play for the Open?  Well I suspect it will be very fast and they will grow the rough to make it quite narrow.  At Xmas it was, despite some fairly typical UK weather, very firm under foot, certainly much firmer than Royal Lytham.  I also think it will favour a player with a good short game as some of the greens are very difficult to hold ie. 10th and the 12th.

If I had to hazard a guess I would have thought it would favour a golfer used to harder, firmer ground, a long hitter able to get close enough to hold some of the greens and take advantage of the par 5s.  I will be fascinated to hear the American response as Royal Liverpool is significantly different in many respects than any other Open course.  Certainly, there is nothing else in the world like the Kop which comes into play most significantly at 1st and 16th.

I do wonder whether the other factor will be the noise?  It is fairly flat ground with the exception of the run from 9 through 12, not featureless but certainly not as dominated by sandhills as some other courses.  The golfers will be able to see and hear plenty of what other players are doing on holes which do offer birdie opportunities ie. 13, 14 and 16.  Certainly anyone in the last group with a two shot lead standing on the 12th will have a very nervy passage home.

Is it worthy of the Open?  IMHO yes !!!  It is not the most picturesque Open venue, its not the toughest (I personally would vote St Georges for that perhaps Carnoustie) but it is very British, surrounded by Edwardian housing, sometimes a little cramped and claustrophobic and dominated by the wind.

I think it will be great and I can't wait !!!

Tom