Opinions of Royal New Kent???

[JESII]

Having played the course 15-20 times between 200-2002 I felt it was one of the best courses that simply got lost. In other words I loved the layout, but felt the climate in Richmond would make it very difficult to maintain the courses in a manner suiting the design.

Any thoughts?

Jim

[Bill Gayne]

Jim,

I've also played RNK multiple times (5-10) and I would concur with your comments. I really enjoy the golf course. When RNK and Stonehouse were built they were ground breaking designs for this area. No courses had the massive size, double fairways, greens with 3-5 drops, and multiple blind shots, etc. Many people are polarized by these two golf courses in that they really liked them or they really didn't.

I would guess that the east side of Richmond was selected because of expected growth that will occur in the next twenty years in the Williamsburg to Richmond corridor. The growth is occurring but not an overly fast pace. Since then Stonehouse has had residential development. Brickshire has opened around the corner from RNK with some nice residential development. RNK is still with out residential development so it has to make it as a daily fee golf facility with a design that requires a lot of maintenance.

I know RNK has had at least three owners and two or three management companies. When the two courses opened green fees were $100+. Today green fees for local residents range between $29 and 49. Plenty of coupons are available for visitors. I consider RNK a great value. But due to the business problems the course isn't all it could be or should be.

In terms of holes, I'm particularly fond of #1, 2, 5, 6, 10, and 15. As you can tell I prefer the front nine. The character of the course changes on 16. The main drawbacks for me is that the course is beyond walking and the typical round takes 5 hours. They don't crack down on slow play.

[JESII]

Many interesting observations Bill,

No love for Number 8??

I have heard conditioning is lacking because of money, and it was never in very good shape when I was there. After winning the Powerball I might consider buying the course and making sure it was in great shape.

I guess a few of the greens are extreme (even for an extreme course like this) but I would much prefer that to not interesting enough. Examples:#3, #6 and #12.

My personal favorite holes--1, 4, 8, 13, 17.

I hope things work out there.

Jim

[ChasLawler]

Jim,
I agree that RNK would probably be better received in a different geographic location. Keep in mind that it’s a minimum 40 minute drive from just about anywhere in the city, and us small town folks just don’t go for that kind of thing. The original price tag when it opened was right around $100, which I think hurt it a good deal. The prices are much lower now, but the condition of the course is significantly lower as well. Weekend rounds can last 5.5 to 6 hours – partly for the penal and blind nature of many of the shots, and partly because of the 15 miles of cart path.

With that said - it’s still a lot of fun, but not the kind of place I’d want to play more than a couple times a year – mainly for me because it’s virtually unwalkable. Imagine what a great walk that could be if only the holes weren’t all a ¼ mile apart. Something about riding around in a golf cart on that course just doesn’t seem right. But then again I’m one of those folks that doesn’t think it’s right anywhere.

The 17th and 18th holes get a bad rap from most architecture folks, but they’re still fun holes – they just don’t really fit in with the first 16.

I’m not sure that many people on this site have played it, which is a shame. Disregarding the distance between holes, I think most people on GCA would really like it. It definitely has the “look” that most on here seem to prefer, it has plenty of what I would consider “strategy”, and more often than not the course plays very firm and fast.

[Bill Gayne]

Jim,

I overlooked #8. What makes it interesting is the semiblind shot into the green. Below picture from the yardage book and website.

[JESII]

Jim,

I overlooked #8. What makes it interesting is the semiblind shot into the green. Below picture from the yardage book and website.

He gives you the option of hitting a shorter club to the narrowest part of the fairway but with a view to the green (although slightly restricted), or you can drive it up to a wider fairway at the cost of no view to the green. A short hole, but miss one shot and you will struggle to recover. Thanks for the pictures.

Jim

[Matt_Ward]

JES II:

I've played the course four times and I have to say the opening sequence is thrilling. The par-4 1st really works and the gambling second is quite entertaining because so many numbers can be had on the hole.

My only real issue?

What is the theory behind the 18th hole? Talk about an anticlimatic closer.

Put Royal New Kent nearer a major metro area and it would be the talk of the town -- it simply gets lost where it is.

[JESII]

Matt,

Can't disagree with any of your comments, I guess I never realized how out-of-character the 18th was but you, and Cabell, are right about the finisher. 18 might hold up on some courses but is an akward ending to this one.

A major pre-requisite for success at RNK is an ability to handle blind shots, as it has more than any other course I can think of on this side of the Atlantic. You would also want a scouting report of some kind (ie: practice round, yardage book, tips from someone with experience) so as to most enjoy each shot.

Jim

[Bill Gayne]

Jim,

That's why you need to keep buying Powerball tickets to take it private and give it the maintenance it needs. With all of the blind shots I always thought it would be better suited as a private club rather than a daily fee facility trying to send groups out every ten minutes. In addition to the distance, the blindness can really hinder the pace of play.

[JESII]

I like the sound of that

When I was first there for a golf tournament in the summer of 2000 I prodded my father to come down and watch a bit just to see the course. He and my mother came down for the third round but were not going to arrive until about an hour after I teed off so I suggested they park on the drive-in near the 6th green / 7th tee. I made it clear that they should not try to back track to meet me so naturally they headed right back down the 6th fairway and by the time they found me heading to my second shot on 5 they had walked about a mile and a half in the July heat of Eastern Virginia. I believe it was the first time they jointly admitted they should have listened to me , but they were real troopers and he thought the course was just as incredible as I did.

Very cool spot if you ask me, and if you can now play there for under $50 I would rank it as a great value bar the 6 hours on a cart.

Jim

[Jerry Kluger]

RNK is simply one of the most fun golf courses I have ever played. Strantz really plays with your mind and you get all kinds of quirky bounces, and the greens are really cool.  I agree that there is quite a change at the end but 18 is the only one which is objectionable.  I read an interview with Strantz and he said that he needed to creat the pond and to get the water from behind 18 to the pond so he thought the waterfall would be cool.  

The local pros played the course on a regular basis in the Crown Royal event and the better scores were lower than I expected. I know one of them and he explained to me how he played number 2 across the ravine:  He would hit an iron toward the ravine as opposed to going left and around it and then he would hit across the ravine and be fairly close to the green.

The par 3s are really alot of fun and can be very demanding while the rest of the course has a good deal of variation and is very challenging.  I am still confused why it  hasn't done better.     To me,  Williamsburg offers some great golf at a great price and the only thing it lacks for some guys I know is the nightlife of Myrtle Beach.  

[Mark Brown]

Strantz's creativity is a two edged sword, and at times he goes over the top. I really like a lot of his work though because there's a surprise around every corner. His imagination is amazing.

I love the front 9 at Royal New Kent. If people didn't know better they would think they were on an Irish links. The back nine is not quite as good, but that's ok -- but No. 18 just about ruined the whole experience for me. I couldn't believe what I saw. They should take the water out of play, and out of sight.

I also think that Tobacco Road is as fun as it gets.

[Tommy Williamsen]

The first time I played RNC was after a trip to Ireland.  I loved it.  It is and Irish reminisence.  The last hole is unfortunate, however.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I disagree.

RNK is anything but Irish.  Maybe Irish on steriods, but Kent is simply much harder than any of the 70 or so Irish courses I've been lucky enough to see.  Kent's rough is not penal, it's final - an inpenetrable tangle where the ball is simply gone, which is unlike the wispy fescues of the Emerald Isle - where you can not only find your ball but also have a chance of advancing it.  The Stranz green complexes are more art form than golf, all but ignoring the ground game and always insisting on out-of-this-world recoveries for missed approaches - something rare in Irish golf.  The multiple tees of RNK try to cater to everybody from the putt-putt player to the pro, again something absent in Irish golf.  And the acreage....well you could fit three Irish courses on one Stonehouse or RNK.

No, let me play and enjoy RNK a few times as an American novelty - I'll be quickly sated.  But let me play any Irish classic over and over again, and when the time comes, I'll beg St Peter to give me one more round on that course before he takes me.

JC  

[Bill Gayne]

I suspect I like the course much more than Jonathan but I don't see Ireland when I play the course. I also know other people who do. As I mentioned in my first post the course tends to polarize people into really like or dislike. I know people on both sides who have played a wide variety and high quality courses. Below is a quote from Golf web. Without knowing Mike Strantz it's hard to tell if he saw Ireland in Virginia or if it's the wishful thinking and marketing of the Youngs (the developers). The link at the end of the quote will provide the entire article.

"Strantz and the Youngs are close friends with Kevin Whitson, the head professional at Northern Ireland's Royal County Down. Their friendship, along with the contours of this piece of land in Williamsburg, inspired them to build a tribute to the wonderful links of Ireland with an emphasis on the character and feel of their favorites -- Royal County Down and Ballybunion.

Originally an artist by trade, Strantz grew up around golf and developed an admiration of the works of Alister MacKenzie. His artistic creativity, along with his design knowledge and hands-on approach made him the ideal candidate for the glorious task. "It wasn't an attempt to copy anything [in Ireland]," Strantz said of his design. "We just happened to really like that style of golf course. The site really inspired it."


http://services.golfweb.com/linksmagazine/9803/kent.html

[Jonathan Cummings]

Bill - thanks for your post.  I've apparently given the wrong impression, I like New Kent.  I just don't think it is anything like an Irish course.  

It is way too often that American players, managers, advertisers, etc label an American course a "true links", or "a tribute to the Irish and Scottish courses"....  The truth is there are precious few American courses that truly qualify.

JC