Sunningdale - Photos

[Carlyle Rood]

I've added some more pictures from my trip to England/Scotland.  The following is a link to photos of Sunningdale (Old):

http://www.golfarch.com/Sunningdale/


Here are a few teasers:


Hole 3




Holes 5 and 6




Hole 12




Hole 13

[David_Tepper]

Carlyle-

Thanks for the pix - very well done!

Sunningdale is a wonderful place. I played both courses in one day back in 1985. I am guessing the green fees have tripled or quadrupled since then.

I remember enjoying the New Course just as much as the Old.

DT  

[Joe Hancock]

Carlyle,

In those first two pictures, are the front-and-center paths merely walking trails, or.....I can't bring myself to say it....

Joe

[Marc Haring]

Joe.

No they are not, In fact I’m not sure if carts are permitted at Sunningdale. They have too much caddy culture going on so any attempts to introduce them would result in sabotage.

Formal paths through the heather has been introduced at all the heathland courses principally to protect the heather. Also the sandy soil is very easily eroded without being surfaced.

Brian Turner the long serving superintendent at Sunningdale has just resigned his position which is a pity. Brian is one of the best.


Here’s a pic of #4 looking back on the new course.

[Philip Gawith]

joe - i have played many rounds at sunningdale and i am pretty sure that carts only allowed for people with medical conditions. i can vaguely recall seeing one, but in general it is a carry your own bag/caddy course. indeed, caddies are more a feature there than any other course i have played in england

[Joe Hancock]

Marc and philip,

Thank you for the replies. I am not quite the cart/ path hater that some on this site are, but sometimes when a ribbon of white/ hard surface stares you in the face, it automatically makes one wonder why it couldn't be routed or concealed a bit better. Those two pictures probably reflect years of "shortest distance" mentality rather than some modern focus on aesthetics, no?

Joe

[Andy Hughes]

For those who know the place, in person, how 'purple' is the purple that Carlyle's pics hint at?

[RT]

Andy,


Heather (Calluna vulgaris)




At its most prolific flowering end of August in Surrey Co.

[Dan_Callahan]

A few days ago, I watched part of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf in a match at Sunningdale between Norman and Faldo. I have to admit, I was unimpressed with the course. It just seemed rather bland, with uniteresting greens and unispired bunkers (anyone know if it was played on the new course? The bunkers didn't have nearly the character as seen in the photos above). In particular, the dense trees seemed out of place on the otherwise rolling terrain. I looked at the Shell Golf Web site, and the description of the course sums it up:

"Our destination is the Sunningdale Golf Club not far from London where a head to head match between the number one ranked Greg Norman of Australia and the number two ranked Nick Faldo of England will take place for the championship of the Empire. Once a treeless tract of land, great rows of pine and birch have grown along the fairways and a beautiful spreading twin oak behind the 18th green has become the symbol of the Club."

I don't mind tree-lined fairways (I live in New England, which seems to have cornered the market on heavily wooded courses), but at Sunningdale in 1994, the trees looked like they were encroaching on the line of play.

[Andy Hughes]

RT, that pic seems to show a much more vertical-growing plant than the heather I typically see on English/Scottish courses. Is it actually the same stuff? And the color seems brighter, not as deep?

[Marc Haring]

Andy.

The heather can get very colourful indeed. Actually, the reddy purple colour is from the flowers of erica carnea or bell heather which strictly speaking is not a heather but an erica. It’s all the same sort of thing though. It is usually mixed in with the slightly later flowering common ling heather (calluna vulgaris) which is more of a lilac in colour and also with the pinker cross leaved heath (erica tetralix) in the wetter areas. Either way it can look stunning at certain times.

Here’s an example of it at Berkshire which is only a mile or so away from Sunningdale.




Dan.

You’re right about the trees. They have resulted in quite a one dimensional course. They desperately need some severe thinning but I don’t think the membership would accept it. The place is run by ex walker cuppers who do not appreciate the more subtle aspects of course stategy.

[Brian Phillips]

Marc,

That is a real shame about Brian Turner who was very helpful for me when I played there.  He seemed to have the place sorted out.

Do you know who is getting the job?  Have you applied or is it going internal?

Brian

[Andy Hughes]

Thanks Marc. Interesting, and quite attractive

[Paul_Turner]

Sunningdale is busy, you need those paths, or the heather gets trampled to death.

How much tree thinning has gone on there recently?  Has Walton Heath spurred them into doing something about it?   I saw that the most obnoxious trees, blocking the view of the 6th from the 5th tee, have been axed.

[Carlyle Rood]

I played in September and never really perceived the trees to be in play.

C

[Marc Haring]

Brian.

I wouldn't get the job even if I did apply. Surrey is not getting a good reputation for superintendents these days. I have heard of a couple of sackings and a nervous breakdown in the last year! There are too many self-proclaimed connoisseurs who are used to wielding their weight at those clubs. At the moment, rumour has it they will not offer the post to anyone but instead use the two head greenkeepers already in place and direct them accordingly.  

Brian Turner will be ok though. Another rumour is that he will be going back to his old post Worplesdon.

[Marc Haring]

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Great pictures thank you..but some comments on Sunningdale
I have had the privelage to play both courses on numerous occasions while growing up playing county golf in England.
At no time have I ever felt that the trees provided any encroachment into the field of play.
That is not to say that some of the heathered areas have become somewhat tree covered and perhaps some of those areas need to be culled, but as far as the field of play is concerned, I think someone is mistaken.
I cannot understand anybody thinking the course is bland and uninteresting, although from the Shell coverage, that I also watched, there were certainly not sufficient shots of the courses' beauty.
If you ever have the cahnce to play the course..and if you are a true disciple of golf course architecture, you will not be dissapointed. It truly is one of Englands classic courses,perhaps a little short for pro tournament play, but a true classic.
The photographs are great and show the course for it calssic beauty..great picture of the Berkshire also.

[Ted Kramer]

A few days ago, I watched part of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf in a match at Sunningdale between Norman and Faldo. I have to admit, I was unimpressed with the course. It just seemed rather bland, with uniteresting greens and unispired bunkers (anyone know if it was played on the new course? The bunkers didn't have nearly the character as seen in the photos above). In particular, the dense trees seemed out of place on the otherwise rolling terrain. I looked at the Shell Golf Web site, and the description of the course sums it up:

"Our destination is the Sunningdale Golf Club not far from London where a head to head match between the number one ranked Greg Norman of Australia and the number two ranked Nick Faldo of England will take place for the championship of the Empire. Once a treeless tract of land, great rows of pine and birch have grown along the fairways and a beautiful spreading twin oak behind the 18th green has become the symbol of the Club."

I don't mind tree-lined fairways (I live in New England, which seems to have cornered the market on heavily wooded courses), but at Sunningdale in 1994, the trees looked like they were encroaching on the line of play.

The Shell's match was played on the new course.

-Ted

[Paul_Turner]

The 4th isn't the best hole on the Old, but it did once have a lumpy green:



Park's great 10th.  With the open heath in full view:




How much would the head greenkeeper at a big London area course get paid?  How many staff, roughly, at a 36 hole club like Sunningdale?  I'm curious about how this compares with a club like Baltusrol, which I think has one member of staff for each hole!!

[Marc Haring]

Paul

Sunningdale would have about 17 staff on the 36 holes.
You could expect about £45-50K a year plus benefits including a house on the course.

[Dan_Callahan]

The Shell's match was played on the new course.

For those who have played both courses, is the old considered the better of the two? Are they similar in design style?

[Andy Hughes]

The 4th isn't the best hole on the Old, but it did once have a lumpy green:

Paul, heckuva green (and heckuvan understatement on your part).  The horseshoe effect in the middle looks like the Raynor green shown on here last week at Cascades, though the rest of the green seems to have way more 'lumpy'.
Its a neat effect, pity its not used more often.