Teaching Advice

[Jonathan Cummings]

A friend of mine is a beginning golfer.  He's played 9 holes about a half dozen times and struggles to shoot under 70!

Anyway, he asked me last night at a party if there is a good 2-3 day school for beginners antwhere in the country that I could recommend (money isn't too much of an issue).  I told him I had no idea but thought a series of private lessons with a local pro would be just as effective.

Thoughts and recommendations?

JC

[Dan_Callahan]

I am a self-taught golfer and was never a big proponent of lessons. With all the videos, books, and magazines out there, it would seem you could, with practice, develop a pretty sound game on you own.

However, I was sent to the Golf Digest School at Cranwell Resort (in Lenox, Mass) to write a profile for a magazine. I spent only one day there (they have a number of multi-day packages) and was thoroughly impressed. The practice facilities are exceptional, and I came away with a video tape of my swing from three different angles. The instructor, Keith Lyford, recorded his comments on the tape, and included side-by-side comparisons of my swing against Tiger, David Love, and Bob Tway. Itt is humbling to say the least to see your swing in slow motion. Moving parts all over the place, loss of posture, casting at the top, hands flipping through impact, etc.

I got much worse for a few weeks after the lesson, but since then have chopped seven strokes off my handicap (from a 12 to a 5).

The instructor, Keith Lyford, is no longer there (I think he opened a school in Arizona?), and that is a key. The facilities are very important, but the instructor is what will make the lesson. A great pro with a video camera and a range will beat an average pro with the best facilities in the world.

[Theresa Stotler]

I reallythink that you need to have more then a few days to learn golf but, if money is no problem, I would go to Gail Peterson at Sea Island.

[ChipRoyce]

I'd like to reccomend a guy named Charlie Cowan who teaches out of the Deer Creek Country Club in Deerfield Beach, FL.

I'm a big fan of his teaching technique - when he sees someone with any kind of athleticism, instead of trying to force them into a particular swing, he works to help them retain their own natural motion through the ball (flat, upright, whatever). Club fitting is a big part of this with him - I'm still playing the same set 6 years later and really pleased with the state of my game and my clubs.

[Andy Doyle]

After being "self-taught" for about 30 years, I went to Ron Philo's Golf School in Amelia Island, FL (just north of Jacksonville) - s 40th birthday gift.

http://www.4bettergolf.com/

I took the 3-day school, and was very impressed.  They didn't try to radically change things, just tried to educate and help me improve what I've got.  I thought the teaching philosophy made a lot of sense, and their concepts about the swing were very biomechanically sound.

The instructor to student ratio was 1:2 - the other student was pretty much a beginner, and he improved dramatically in 3 days. My handicap has gone down about 3 strokes - not as much as I'd like, but I chalk it up mostly to having 2 young kids & not practicing the drills consistently.  I do feel like I have a much better knowledge about what I'm trying to do with the ball.

My instructor was Kevin Diaz - he was great.  He has now married Laura Philo (the boss' daughter) - the Laura Diaz on the LPGA tour.  I don't think you can get him as an instructor now - I think he is managing his wife's professional career.  

Other than the 6-lesson driving range package when I was 10, this is the only formal golf instruction I've ever gotten.  I was impressed, and would recommend them highly.

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[Ken Fry]

This is obviously an "off topic" thread, but tell your friend to find a good, local PGA member for some lessons.

Talk around with people and have your friend interview pros in his area.  Find someone he's comfortable with and who's knowledgable and he can have someone within minutes (or hours if neccessary) that can be there to coach him along in learning.

Golf schools are nice.  Expensive.  You get a great tape or a DVD with "side by side" comparisons with a world class player that you will not look anything like when you swing.  Once you go home, there's no reinforcement and no one to turn to for assistance.  (If you consider your Saturday golf partner as "reinforcement," remember what he/she does for a living.)

If you spend $800 on the very low end to $3500 on the high end for a golf school, remember a lesson with a local PGA pro will run between $40-$100 per lesson.  Most local pros have gotten into some form of video so you can still go home with a tape or a DVD at a fraction of the cost.  For the price, that's quite a few possible lessons spread over a longer period of time than attending a 3-5 day school.

[Jonathan Cummings]

KFry - basically I think the same as you but wondering about other experiences... JC

[Ken Fry]

JC,

In the 10 years I've been teaching, I've had many folks that have traveled great distances to attend a golf school or make an appointment with one of the "swing gurus" that's on some list of the country's best instructors.  When they return, things go well.  After a period of time, they lose what they learned and can't get it back.  Having a trained set of eyes handy makes a BIG difference.

Dan Callaghan,

A "how to" book with pictures or a video won't make you a good golfer.  If you're at a point where you're happy, that's fine.  Like any other physical activity, you can't learn golf from a book.  You can't learn baseball, skiing or tennis either.  Seeing the physical movements provided for someone else teaches you how they swing the club, not how to play golf.  There's a big difference.

[cary lichtenstein]

Find a local pro that you relate to, take 2 lessons a week, to include all aspects of the game and practice diligently everyday for a couple of hours. That is the best way to improve.

[Phil_the_Author]

With money no obhect he might consider spending some time at the PGA Developmental Center in Port St. Lucie, Florida. One of the advantages of lessons there is that he will be able to spend some time in the PGA of America museum & Probst Library which is also on site. A good sense of the history of the game is as important as a good swing.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Forget the schools, but if money is not really a concern, tell your buddy to search out one of the top 50 teachers, and go there for about 3 days, with the intention of returning every month to continue his education.

Ask around regarding the top 50 though.
I do not know anybody who has benfitted from Hank Haney for instance, but Mike Mcegtrick I have heard is great with all players.

The main problem with schools, is the mass of info imparted in a short period of time, which can be overwhelming and ultimately a waste of time for many people.
The one school I would recommend, is one of Dave Pelz's short game schools..that would be worthwhile.

[Dan_Callahan]

Kfry,

I have to disagree. Mimicry is a great way to develop a golf swing or learn how to ski (I coach both). Watching yourself on video and comparing it to a pro is an easy way to see where you are going wrong. Supplement that with some books explaining swing basics and you can go pretty far.

However, my point was that a good instructor is a superior alternative. A pro with a good eye is worth more any magazine, video or book.

[Bob_Huntley]

I do not know anybody who has benfitted (sic) from Hank Haney for instance, but Mike Mcegtrick I have heard is great with all players.

I thought that the dumbest thing I have ever seen or read was Hank Haney's full length article in Golf Magazine. on how he could not hit his driver to save his life. Almost like the surgeon saying "Oops, my scalpel has a life of its own."

[Mike Benham]

A 2-3 golf school will be information overload for the attendee.

I recommend starting with a local pro, maybe even group lessons.  The biggest improvement will come with strong fundementals; set-up, posture, grip, etc. and then hitting hundreds of balls instilling these fundementals.

The lesson(s) don't improve the golfer, the repetition of the taught technique does.

As Mr. Hogan said (or close to it ...) "For every day of practice that you miss, it takes two days of practice to make up for it"

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jon,
Tell him to go out and learn how to play the game on his own. Tell him about Ben Hogan's book, Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf and how if he can't learn a gawf swing from that, then he ought not to be wasting his time.

All this money spent on golf swings when the master of the golf swing has a book that is a gift to the game, is just pure waste.

[jeffwarne]

Bob,

Comparing Hank Haney to the trembling surgeon is actually not fair-Would the surgeon with the trembling hands be unfit to teach others?

That said,I would search out a teacher in your area(word of mouth,internet)-take a 1 hour lesson once a week for a year.That $5000 spent would go much farther than a 2-3 day golf school where blisters,sore muscles,excessive expectations,and possible confusion lie in wait.

However,if money is no object(and you're willing to accept  a golf school as an expensive,not necessarily cost effective vacation)golf schools can be helpful(particularly if the alternative would be nothing due to winter),but never as a substitute for consistent,quality instruction.
If a prospective teacher or school uses the words method or state-of-the-art---hang up the phone immediately.

Insist on video-short game and long game-on the course as well.

Don't neglect the short game,but I guarantee you 3-4  hours on the short game with a qualified instructor and PRACTICE will go waaaay farther than some method(or school) where you use 3 different swings and 4 wedges(and get to hear oodles and oodles about "research")--talk about confusion and making a simple thing hard

[Tony_Chapman]

Jon,
Tell him to go out and learn how to play the game on his own. Tell him about Ben Hogan's book, Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf and how if he can't learn a gawf swing from that, then he ought not to be wasting his time.

All this money spent on golf swings when the master of the golf swing has a book that is a gift to the game, is just pure waste.

Agreed. 100%. I learned golf from my dad and this book. The only other thing I would recommend is to read Harvey Penick's "Little Red Book". If he can't take the weed cutter in the back yard and trim the grass, he is going to have a heck of a time hitting a 7-iron.

Cheers,

Tony

[Ken Fry]

Tommy N,

While I agree Ben Hogan is still the best ball striker of all time, his book (which I have and enjoy immensely) created a generation of people trying to tie their elbows together, weakening their grip too much and slicing the ball more than they would have normally.  His advice detailed in those pages were secrets to him, not to anyone else.  He dug those secrets out of the ground for his game.  Too many people think a book, video or even a teaching professional will give them all the answers.  These teaching aids are a piece of the puzzle, but nothing replaces putting the work in.

Once someone has invested that time and effort, a set of trained eyes to look for the small issues in their swing is invaluable.  I know the older generation of PGA Tour golfers can't understand all the gurus on the range with today's players, but you can't argue the results....

[jeffwarne]

Kfry,

Nice summary of Hogan's book-a great reference and a great read,but generally useless for newer players(unless they're fighting a hook)
BTW- I understand most people don't have $5000 for lessons,I meant as an alternative to school.
Invest in your education first though instead of a titanium driver(or 2)

My old boss had a great sign--"If you think education is expensive,Try ignorance"

[Bob_Huntley]

I have seen more shanks from people that have read Hogan's (Herbert Warren Wind) book than any other instruction piece written.

Copy someone who can play and has your build. Sign up for a bunch of lessons locally.

I mentioned this before but it bears reading again.

Back in 1960, Alec Allis, Peter's brother, was the pro at Nchanga G.C. in Northern Rhodesia. He decided to return to England. Bertie Williams, a low handicapper and student of the game decided he would help the Ladies Section until a new pro was hired. He would line them up on the range, put an old windup phonograph on a table and play 'The Blue Danube Waltz.' They swung in unison without a ball.... later a tennis ball was placed down.... eventually a golf ball. By the end of six months there were some ladies with very impressive golf swings. Try it with your children, it's a fascinating experiment.


 He was asked to help the men, he declined. When asked why, his reply was that every man coming to golf has an ego about his sporting accomplishments that is out of proportion to actuality. It was all about muscle.

[Dan Kelly]

I'm sure (?) it's not fair to him, but every time I see the name "Hank Haney," I see some combination of Hank Kimball and Mr. Haney, from "Green Acres."

Maybe Tiger spent the past year having "Green Acres" thoughts, at address. ("He's not their son! He's a PIG!") Fore Right!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Kfry and Jeff,
Not knowing much about Hogan, or better probably not knowing nearly as much as some of you, I have to ask, did Hogan ever rely on a swing guru or electronic equipment to aid his golf swing?

While I'm not nearly the golfer as some of you either, I will say when I have taken the time to practice, and usually practiced by the fundamentals of his book, my scores dropped dramatically. I played more competitvely and I found myself coming up with ideas for golf shots, or at least how to hit them on a much more consistent basis.

Its the bible for the golf swing as far as I'm concerned and while having Jon's friend may have the means to afford the technology; as well as having a professional "swing doctor" look at it and prescribe--well, I'm just more apt to suggest reading the book and seeing how he adapts to it; taught by the greatest most affluent golf swing the world has known.

Another thing is most of the professionals out there teaching have the attitude of a computer or electronics geek. They maintain this attitude and arrogance and I find to be less then captavating. You can be sure they're very good at always checking out their timepiece to makesure this lesson is almost over, instead of making sure that the student knew exactly, or understood precisely what you were trying to convey as a teacher, even if it meant going a few minutes into the next lesson.  Then are less then enthusiastic about teaching me compared as enthusastic about making sure that I'm signed-up for my next lesson.

There are just too many "professionals" out there that maintain this arrogant and less then trying attitude, as well as bring it to the lesson tee.

Ben has never done that to me.

I learn golf from his excellent ideas in this book on MY TIME, no one elses.

Also I would like you to know that the words of your boss are solid and probably very true words. However, I have known quite a many people that have been successful in life that didn't bring any form of education to the table--just street smarts, and they had no problem at being successful.

[Will E]

Tommy-
Most Hogan fans would be better off with Power Golf.
With your background I'd suggest studying Homer Kelly's contribution to golf and insomina, "The Golfing Machine". I have gotten a lot out of TGM the last month as I've studied it more. And while Hogan found most of his answers "in the dirt", he did learn much from Henry Picard. I'd question if Hogan's swing would be the best model for you, even though I know you are often mistaken for him.

I can't believe that no one has plugged Jeff Warne and his fine work in "Shrink Your Handicap". If Jeff is still accepting new students I give him my full endorsement.

[jeffwarne]

Agreed on most/all points

Practice and self discipline is the key to game improvement,and too many people want the teacher to "make" them better.

By the way,Hogan was one of the first to use film to record his swing.That book is ONE is my bibles-Power Golf by Hogan may even be better(great pictures)

The many hats that a PGA professional wears make some teachers way better than others.Probably 90% are not that good at teaching(How good can one be good at something they devote a small percentage of time to)-however that means there are still thousands of good dedicated,teaching professionals-a little research by the student is all that's needed.

Street smarts are still education,learning the game on your own is still education-I had the opportunity to learn the game on my own(relatively successfully)I also had the opportunity to study with and take lessons from the greatest teachers in the game-I know which one I'd prefer if I had it to do over again.

[jeffwarne]

Shooter-you're a dead man
funny we both mentioned Power Golf(I didn't see your post)