News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Patrick_Mucci

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #100 on: December 15, 2004, 05:24:12 PM »
Tommy Naccarato,

You're correct, you don't have your facts straight. ;D

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #101 on: December 15, 2004, 05:37:18 PM »
It's my understanding that Ken sort of inherted the Faz when he became involved in the project out there with the really nice people (in my opinion) who own or owned much of that land out there. Apparently Faz produced a routing plan and told Ken not to worry about those bothersome dunes up there that his army of D-8s could take care of that mess anyway he wanted them to in under a week. At that point KenB said something like;

"Hey Faz, why don't you go over to that road over there on the far side of the property, get in your car, put it in gear, rest your foot on the accelerator and I'll be right over there to talk to you about that!"

;)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #102 on: December 15, 2004, 05:47:16 PM »
I can honestly say that until I came to these fair shores the word HYNNIE was unbeknown to my fair ears..so I think you can spell itant way you like!!

That stretch from 14 onward is brutal, I cannot think of a tougher finishing stretch that I have played.
I do not remember playing that stretch any better tahn +3, in about 20 rounds of golf...#18 really kicks my arse..I think it is because I am such a Hogan nut and the historical aura that surrounds that hole...just once I would like to hit that fairway so that I can see the plaque!!!!!

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #103 on: December 15, 2004, 05:53:02 PM »
Michael W-P;

One time years ago in the Pa State Amateur, though starting on #11 I arrived at #18 two under and made a pretty nice up and down for a 13! Twice, once just below the top of the quarry and once in those bushes that used to be down to the right of the green, I hit the ball and the goddamned thing had the affrontery to come right back and hit me!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 07:54:34 PM by TEPaul »

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #104 on: December 15, 2004, 08:00:50 PM »
Wow, look at the nose on that Princpal on #4. It must be Pinnochio, look how much it grew!  :)

wsmorrison

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #105 on: December 15, 2004, 08:35:14 PM »
You can see the bunker behind the 8th green that is no more.  I have to check, but it would seem as though the green wasn't remodeled at this point.

Tom P, you're a funny guy.

Willie_Dow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #106 on: December 15, 2004, 08:57:06 PM »
Wayne' you and Tom are both "funny guys".  What a great historical venture you have given to the members of Merion.

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #107 on: December 15, 2004, 09:22:21 PM »
"Wayne' you and Tom are both "funny guys".  What a great historical venture you have given to the members of Merion."

Willie:

You're from Merion and you know the way it goes both there, PVGC and thoughout the entire architectural world of Old Philly---we can't give these Huns and Heathens from places like Ohio even an inch or they'll destroy everthing that's sacred and pure to us! This wacko MacWood is trying to pull a two pronged attack on us---one from his ivory tower in the West and another one from the Northeast through old magazine and newspaper articles about that out-sized egomaniacal arch-nemesis of Philadelphia golf and golf architecture, Chuckie Macdonald---that old arrogant coot!

Keep the Faith and don't even open an email that has the word "advice" in it---it's bound to have a virus!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 09:35:19 PM by TEPaul »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #108 on: December 15, 2004, 09:24:19 PM »
SPDB
 
Thanks-I have only ever played the other tees
AKA Mayday

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #109 on: December 15, 2004, 09:33:24 PM »
Hey Mayday;

Do you want to go out to dinner at some local diner that has nice booths with Wayne and me this Friday night? We can discuss something like a bunker 20 yards short of a green near a hillside that slopes right to left where for some inexplicable reason various members think a golf ball bounces right. I'll even order dinner for you!

Wayne:

That green on #8 in that photo was the old one that sloped front to back, huh? Don't you think a green like that would've put a lot more pressure on the golfer on the tee to hit driver and get as close to the green as possible? They ought to restore it, don't you think? Do you think maybe Pickering designed and built that one and after a while Hugh just couldn't take it anymore like Pickering himself? Do you think maybe we should try to prove to Tom MacWood that the real breakthrough for Flynn and the key to his success was that Pickering was such a lush? Maybe Pickering was a mole secretly planted in Philadelphia by C.B. Macdonald! What do you think? Sounds pretty logical to me.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 09:46:14 PM by TEPaul »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #110 on: December 15, 2004, 09:34:44 PM »
You can see the bunker behind the 8th green that is no more.  I have to check, but it would seem as though the green wasn't remodeled at this point.


Wayne - You can see a bunker in front of 9 that is no more as well.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 09:35:07 PM by SPDB »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #111 on: December 15, 2004, 09:39:52 PM »
Tom,

 Fougetaboutit! I ain't going to any diner with you two goons----20 yards? It keeps getting closer-why not just put it on the green.
AKA Mayday

wsmorrison

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #112 on: December 15, 2004, 09:47:01 PM »
SPDB,

You mean in the front of the green?  If so, that ain't no bunker...that be a pond.

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #113 on: December 15, 2004, 09:49:59 PM »
"Tom,
Fougetaboutit! I ain't going to any diner with you two goons----20 yards? It keeps getting closer-why not just put it on the green.

OK, fine, then 40 yards or whatever distance you want but for that I'm not buying you any drinks before dinner--no soup either---all you're gonna get is lukewarm mashed potatoes and a ketchup topping!

wsmorrison

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #114 on: December 15, 2004, 09:52:00 PM »
Tom,

If that original green was built by Pickering, he was down to the backwash of the bottle not his flask when he was working on it.  That must have been a real knee-knocking, arse-puckering shot to a perched green falling away from you into that sand pit.  It certainly would have made me want to get closer to the green.

I just found out that before Pickering married Flynn's sister, he was engaged to CB's first cousin.  When CB found out Flynn was going to work on the new course for Merion, he made his cousin break off the engagement and introduced Pickering to Flynn's sister and gave him a bottle of his best booze to drink her pretty.  It is a conspiracy, I tell you.  Oliver Stone has the movie rights.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 09:54:26 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #115 on: December 15, 2004, 09:57:02 PM »
Tommy Naccarato,

You're correct, you don't have your facts straight. ;D

Pat,
Are you so sure that I don't have my facts straight that your willing to wager a few dollars? ? ? ?

The betting window is now open!  :)


« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 09:58:16 PM by Tommy_Naccarato »

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #116 on: December 15, 2004, 09:58:35 PM »
"If that original green was built by Pickering, he was down to the backwash of the bottle not his flask when he was working on it."

That's the best kind! I'll tell you right now not a single one of these "girlie men" architects today would even dare do some of the things "Old Pick" used to come up with at the end of the day when he really got smart! I think they should restore old #8 green!  
« Last Edit: December 15, 2004, 10:00:47 PM by TEPaul »

Patrick_Mucci

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #117 on: December 16, 2004, 10:04:52 AM »
Tommy Naccarato,

Sure.

What are the terms ?

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #118 on: December 16, 2004, 02:31:29 PM »
I'm learning a good deal from this thread - believe it or not.

Please resolve how to spell "hynnie" once and for all, though.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #119 on: December 16, 2004, 02:38:46 PM »
chipoat,
I think we have established that it has an arbitrary spelling, depending upon where you are from...it may differ from south of the dixie line to the north, and from one side of the atlantic to the other.

Either way, Merion will well and truly kick it for you!!

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #120 on: December 16, 2004, 02:40:46 PM »
Heinie -- as in "Tom Doak's heinie boys."
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #121 on: December 16, 2004, 04:41:12 PM »
Pat - Would you say that Donald Ross advised Bobby Jones and Cliff Roberts at Augusta National?

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #122 on: December 16, 2004, 06:03:44 PM »
Since one of the Merion history books seemingly attributes to Hugh Wilson the mention that #3 was inspired by North Berwick's redan should we say that Braid, Sayers, Campbell, Hutchison, Hotchkin, Strath or Dunn "ADVISED" Hugh Wilson or since the history book attributes mention to Wilson that the dip in front of #17 was inspired by "The Valley of Sin" in front of TOC's #18, should we say that Old Tom Morris "ADVISED" Hugh Wilson too?

TEPaul

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #123 on: December 16, 2004, 09:06:51 PM »
Tom MacWood regarding the mystery of the routing of Merion East;

“….there appears to be other facts he chose not to cover in his report for whatever reason: The routing process is not discussed (as far as I can tell),”

Luckily, I’ve just found this chronicle in the back of a frame in Merion’s archives. It’s Hugh Wilson’s chronicle of the day he and his Merion Committee with Fred Pickering, William Flynn and Howard Toomey in tow routed the world famous Merion East golf course.

                                The Laying out of the routing of Merion East
                                                       By
                                              Hugh Irvine Wilson
                                                  Feb, 3, 1911

On a rather warm early February Saturday morning 1911 my committee and I along with William Flynn, Fred Pickering and Howard Toomey collected in front of the clubhouse to route the golf course. The committee consisted of Rodman Griscom, Henry Toulmin, Richard Francis and Horatio Gates.

The winter turf was somewhat soft and spongy and I thanked my lucky stars I’d bought those wonderful Abercrombie & Fitch rubber slip-ons to place over my Peal walking shoes. As we prepared to set out I notice Pickering smelled like a gin mill. I set the stage for this historic moment by announcing “Alright, boys, what do we do now?” Roddy Griscom said; “How the Hell do we know Hugh, years from now some pawky researcher from Ohio might call us rank novices which we probably are and that’s why we sent you to Europe for seven months to study this subject, my boy. Don’t you know what we’re supposed to do now?” Henry Toulmin chimed in; “Hugh, I’m scared, do you think we should go to your office and try that new machine and ask Charlie Macdonald what we should do now?”

Young Bill Flynn said; “ I don’t think that will be necessary Mr Wilson, I think we should start with a tee right here in front of the clubhouse and take a hole over to the corner of Ardmore Ave and the road over there the driveway comes in from.” I told the little mick from Massachussets that despite the fact that he says he’d designed a golf course in Vermont that was a pretty dodgy idea since we were standing right in the middle of the parking circle of the club’s driveway.  But young Bill said: “Mr Wilson, why don’t we bring the driveway in from Ardmore avenue and make a parking lot behind the barn behind us because this will make a most cozy and dramatic starting tee just next to the clubhouse?” I told this over-reaching William that we were not in the business of road-planning, we were here to lay out the routing of a golf course. He did have a good point that a hole over to the elbow of Ardmore Ave and the clubhouse road did look like a reasonable place for a hole, so we walked around to the side of the clubhouse and looked at that angle for a tee from there and it looked just jake to me. And so we proceeded with the first. For some reason Dick Francis had broken away from us and was heading down to the far end at the top of L of the property on the clubhouse side of the road and to allow him to catch up to us again we all walked slightly to the right. I notice young William was sketching our progress and consequently the first hole became a dogleg left.

With Pickering leading the way we proceeded across Ardmore Ave. Pickering stumbled and was nearly killed by a passing car but luckily Hor Gates caught the poor stinking wretch. From the other side of Ardmore Ave we observed the land before us down Ardmore Ave from the promontory above the creek and proceeded that way to a point I thought made a demanding par 5. Bill Flynn said it would make a finer par 5 if we went a bit farther to the end. I told the young man that would make a hole of nearly 575 yards and if we kept that kind of stretching up our course would be criticized for the rest of time as being and overly long slog with far too much total yardage on the card! Bill said we should consider the deleterious effects in the future of this new “Bounding Billie” golf ball and that someday Merion may need to be 8,000 yards because of it.  We continued along with the property line on the right to the end to what seemed a long par 4. We turned back from there as there was no more to go in that direction and followed the property line on the right again to a rise that appeared to make a fine high green for a short hole.

At that point Pickering said he felt he was going to be ill so I told him to step across the boundary fence to the right which he did and as we waited for him Roddy said he was sorry but he had to go #2. I told Roddy that if we were going to be architects and spend long periods of time on the land we should all act like architects and remember to do our business at home in the morning. Roddy trotted into the valley and up the hillside on the other side behind a tree and did his business. Pickering returned with a little more color in his checks and Roddy yelled to us to report that from his vantage squatting behind a tree on the hillside on the other side of the valley that it looked like a fine route ahead of him for another long hole and so the wonderfully long second par 5 with a green just over the creek nearly 600 yards away came into being.

(Unfortunately I found only two pages of what appears to have been about a 15 page report of the routing of Merion East but I will continue to look for the rest).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2004, 09:14:22 PM by TEPaul »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:1916 Amateur @ Merion
« Reply #124 on: December 16, 2004, 09:10:06 PM »
Tommy Naccarato,

Sure.

What are the terms ?

Pat,
Are you telling me that Ken Bakst met or spoke with Tom Fazio before Friar's Head opened in 2002? ? ? ?

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back