Finding "a good piece of land"...how to do it??

[Brian_Gracely]

Asking the architects out there...

How often are you brought in to find the piece of land?  I don't mean finding the routing of the holes on an existing piece of land, but rather brought into the process of finding the land from a larger area.  Does this ever happen?

Just looking for some tips as I go looking for a piece of property.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Brian,

Not often, but it does happen.

At the Quarry at Giant's Ridge, I helped them select among four sites.  Things like the need for a different look and more importantly, ease of utility connection led us to the Quarry.

At Fortune Bay, we were allowed to choose from two sides of the reservation.

At Woodland Hills in Nebraska, the owners farm had some potential to morph a bit into another farm, and we changed that routing mid stream to take advantage of cerrtain features.  Similarly, the City of Lincoln had more property than we needed for Highlands GC, and we had to decide which part of the property to put it.

But, Giants Ridge Quarry is the only time I can recall (out of 45 courses designed) that I actually got to pick a site......

[Jim Franklin]

When I was at Bandon, I spoke to Mike Keiser and he said he was looking for property for quite awhile before he got a call to look at the Bandon site. He said that piece of property had been on the market for a few years as well. As they say, timing is everything. In Mike's case, a lot of vision as well.

[TEPaul]

Architects from the past have written it's always a better idea to bring them in BEFORE you settle on a piece of property for a golf course not AFTER! I could produce the quotes from both Flynn and Ross on that. For obvious reasons that makes sense but the fact is that isn't always possible or feasible as some clients may not have a choice themselves.

Rees Jones built one of his better courses called Hunstville in Northeastern Pa and apparently the site of the golf course was not the first or perhaps the second or third or fourth the owner/client looked at with Rees. Rees apparently did not recommend the sites that were looked at before finding the site of Huntsville.

I'm sort of at that point in something I'm somewhat involved in right now. We were trying to go forward without the vetting of an architect but as of now I'd like to bring the architect in and just let him make the call. If he says yes I'd stay in it but if he says no or even "iffy" I'd sure take a very careful look at bailing.

[Bob_Huntley]

Brian,

I have mentioned this before but when you leave Pebble Beach going north on Highway One, drive by the oceanside dunes of Seaside and Sand City toward Castroville, and you can see the site for six courses, all more exciting than the one before.

Bob

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bob, I think the same thing everytime I pass that area.

[THuckaby2]

Bob/JB - as do most of us as we drive to and from.  

Of course the issue is getting some golf courses built on that land.  I'd say one has a better chance of living to 10,000 years than that happening.

 

[Mike Benham]

Brian,

I have mentioned this before but when you leave Pebble Beach going north on Highway One, drive by the oceanside dunes of Seaside and Sand City toward Castroville, and you can see the site for six courses, all more exciting than the one before.

Bob

Dreaming may be the only thing possible with those dunes.  The CCC would have a field day battling that development and if it is the old Fort Ord land, the construction crew would get hazard pay for working along the old gunnery ranges.

http://www.californiacoastline.org/cgi-bin/image.cgi?image=875&mode=sequential&flags=0&year=2002

[Art_Schaupeter]

Brian,

To answer your question, not often enough.  Most of the projects I have been involved in have already had some type of conceptual routing plan put together by the time I am hired.  Many times the plans were done by a local engineer or land planner (or the owner), and they can be modified or disregarded if I can come up with a better alternative.  The problem in these situations is that certain assumptions might have already been made that make it tough to sell the owner on alternative ideas.  

I have been fortunate to have been brought in early enough to help with the actual site selection twice.  Both times it was with previous clients who were looking for their next project.  In one instance, upon reviewing the available pieces of ground and doing some preliminary routing work, I determined that the quality of golf course that the owner wanted could not be produced on the site without a substantial investment above what they wanted to spend.  They ended up not doing the project, but it was the right decision for them based on what their vision and budget was.

The second project is currently under design and will hopefully go to construction this spring.  I looked at three separate sites and made a recommendation to the owner, which they accepted.

Obviously, from the architect's standpoint this is an ideal process as you can really try to maximize the potential.  From the owner's standpoint there is also a lot of benefit as the architect can help ensure that your vision can be accomplished on various sites, as well as understanding what it might cost to accomplish that vision.

Art

[texsport]

Brian,

Not often, but it does happen.

At the Quarry at Giant's Ridge, I helped them select among four sites.  Things like the need for a different look and more importantly, ease of utility connection led us to the Quarry.

 Giants Ridge Quarry is the only time I can recall (out of 45 courses designed) that I actually got to pick a site......

Jeff
    Nice choices!

[Michael Goody]

a piece of land that i always dream about are the dunes in hither hills state park as you drive out past napeague to montauk on long island