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Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« on: November 18, 2004, 11:33:55 PM »
I am on record of not being a big fan of the extended shaved green surrounds at Rustic Canyon.  I could be wrong and Mr. Moriarty has cut me some slack in that regard.  That said, I was a little surprised at the observation that the bermuda fairways and rough at Cuscowilla eliminated short game options.  I totally disagree.

Short side one at Rustic Canyon and I'm guessing players of all skill levels putt 9 out of 10 times (excepting Sky King who was seen using the first club he arbitrarily pulled from his bag).   On the other hand, I'd say the options should be split evenly at Cuscowilla between a) putting  b) one hopping the ball onto the green with a hooded wedge or short iron, or c) pitching the ball onto the green with a lob or sand wedge with the requisite spin.  Seems to me the lie dictates the shot more so than other grasses.  Putt the ball if the bermuda is thin (prevalent in shady areas - left of the 13th green comes to mind) or if one is totally devoid of short game talent.  Bump it if the lie is a little heavy.  Pitch and stop it from the clean lie (for those of you who have talent).  I saw some very good players fail to play what I perceived was the best shot FOR THEM with the result being that strokes were dropped.  

I fully realize you might be a redneck if ... you praise bermuda grass.  Any thoughts?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

jeffwarne

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2004, 11:53:45 PM »
Agree with all of the above-ground game is certainly an option unless it's summertime AND common bermuda ANDgrowing against you
Additionally,doesn't have to be tall to be nasty which allows you to find ball easily yet have tough shot
Also in the deep south
 give me a firm bermuda green over mushy,struggling bent any day-(overseed if needed in winter)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Brent Hutto

Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2004, 06:14:36 AM »
On Sunday at Cuscowilla I was hitting my third shot from left of the green (yes, I short-sided myself terribly). Normally I would either putt or more likely roll the ball with a hybrid club from 10-15 feet off the green and little green to work with. However, in this case there was an obvious patch of very nappy grain just in front of the ball on the upslope that would have absolutely killed a putt so I had to bump it just past that spot with a pitching wedge.

I know most people think having to account for grain like that is a bad thing but I think it's an interesting challenge to playing on Bermuda courses. You can have shots on two different holes that look identical when you're walking up to the ball but when you look close one of them is a no-brainer putt and the other just as obviously requires chipping the ball in the air. That's pretty cool.

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2004, 08:10:23 AM »
Having been born in the South (Southern Connecticut), It took me awhile to realize the Joy of Bremuda...Grass!

I can just throw my ball down on the teeing area, and sweep my driver off of the deck to my heart's content!

Around the greens, I can accerate my lobs with impunity.

On the greens, I can boldly charge the uphill putts.

I may never go back to bent again.  

Pass the Cheerwine!!

JWK

Lou_Duran

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2004, 12:38:59 PM »
It has been over 26 years since I left Ohio for Texas and I still have not gained much respect or appreciation for bermuda.  For sure, given a choice of fighting the heat for 3 - 4 months with bent greens or having to put up with the varying coniditions of even the best bermuda hybrids for 12 months, I'll take bent nearly every time.

On the fairways and collars, I've seen some firmed-up bermuda which performed very well.  Unfortunately, this tended to be the common variety and not the 419, sporturf, and other hybrids which are now typically used.  I suspect that the hybrids could be maintained so the ball runs better with less fertilizer and water, but most golfers like green grass.  Also, well-maintained (frequently verti-cut to control grain) hybrid bermuda greens can get very firm and fast unless watered heavily and aerated often, and the resulting run-off often saturates the approaches (which don't drain as well as the greens because of their base).

I did not think that the ground game was very good at Cuscowilla, in part because the firmness of the approaches was unpredictable.  It seemed to be much more of a water (rain and irrigation) issue than grain.

One way to allow for firmer bermuda (and probably bent as well) approaches is to expand the sand base from the green pads toward the line of play.  At The Rawls Course, I recall watching Jim Urbina marking some areas up to 20+ yards in front of the greens where 12"+ of native soil was to be removed and replaced with green mix (sand).

I do enjoy hitting a fairway wood from a good lie on 419 than the equivalent on bent, blue, or fescue.  The ball sometimes sits like it's on a tee.  Ditto for some of the hybrid zoysias.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2004, 12:47:46 PM »
Lou,

Sand base is one option. Most courses probably need more irrigation control capabilities, including part to part heads on the greens, a second loop of sprinklers around the green surrounds, and individual head control for the approach area sprinklers.  Sadly, GSW has none of this with its 1970's era irrigation system >:(
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John_Cullum

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2004, 01:23:48 PM »
I've dealt with it my whole life and it requires more thought, but it can be well done. The overall best I have seen is at Seaside at Sea Island. They keep the approaches cut very close, and it is very consistent.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Michael_Burrows

Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2004, 08:13:27 PM »
You guys need to play a golf course that has good zoysia fairways and tees. The ball sits up so much better than on bermudagrass. Plus you don't have to mow as much as you do with bermudagrass because the grass is more unform and dense than bermudagrass.  

Mike Hendren

  • Total Karma: -1
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2004, 09:18:48 AM »
Lou:  "Predictable"
Sarge:  "Consistent"
Michael:   "Uniform"

Yet we all decry "The Augusta Syndrome."

I don't get it.

Michael,

My home course has zoysia and I indeed like it.  But, the ball "sits up" on dirt, too.

Kindest regards,

Mike



Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Lou_Duran

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:In Praise of Bermuda Grass
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2004, 11:25:23 AM »
Mike,

Are you part of the "grain is good", "greens should run at all different speeds", "quirk rules" crowd?  Do you enjoy studying a shot, executing it accordingly maybe once out of 10 times only to see it plug or careem into a bunker?  Perhaps you should just be flipping quarters in the cart shack instead of playing golf.  

Augusta Syndrome my a--!  Very few of us, with the possible exception of Tom Paul, Pat Mucci, Sir Huntley, and a couple others will ever see true Augusta-like conditions.  We all should be so lucky.

Most of us don't ask for even an approximation of those conditions at home.  But it sure is fun when you see the shot, hit it in the nuts, and the ball reacts as you dreamed it would.  It is those rare ocassions, maybe a couple of times in the round, when all three things take place correctly on the same shot (analysis, execution, and results) that bring you back for more.  I guess that it was a good thing that the maintenance meld was not entirely to my liking at Cuscowilla!