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Tommy_Naccarato

Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« on: November 22, 2004, 04:55:11 AM »
I'm a huge fan of the Frank Herbert series of Dune novels, and have been well since the early 1980's. This might even be part of the reason for my enjoyment of sand!



Anyway, after checking out the second in a series, produced by The Scifi Channel, Dune's Children of Dune, I was intrigued to find out how Frank Herbert had passed away, as well as what might have inspired him to write the Dune novels.

Lo and behold, I was quite shocked to find out why!

From a website on books and authors:

"In Dune, Herbert plunged into an alien future centered around a complex interplanetary civilization. Herbert's idea date in the late 1950s when he studied a governmental ecological project designed to halt the spread of sand dunes on the Oregon coastline. The book sold over 12 million copies, was translated into several languages and adapted for the screen. Herbert examined inside a frame of an entertaining Space Opera several themes - the development of psi powers, intergalactic politics, religion (especially Zen Buddhism), functions of an alien ecosystem, and messianism."

It got me thinking immediately, "what could have been if the Oregon Dunes, one of the great beautiful wonders of the West Coast would have been allowed to further evolve?"

The chances are that everything from the coast to Eugene could have been sand!

The sand was actually a product from the coastal mountain range, and where water run-off to the sea, broke down the boulders and rocks into sand. At the turn of the 19th century, it is well known that Gorse or Whin was brought over from Great Britain and planted in large numbers to prevent the sand from further being blown inland and thus allowing the noxious weed to spread. They have spent inordinate amounts of money in recent years clearing the dunes of this same Gorse!

Many of those areas where the sand still peaks through, like the site of Bill Robinson's Ocean Dunes, is some of the most definitive golf land imaginable.

But how it further relates to the Dune saga is that this effort to prevent the dunes from turning Southern Oregon into a desert was the result of politics and prevention--the inspired storyline of the Dune novels!

So, all of you guys from the Northwest and people who have visited these wonderful dunes from Haceta Head to the Coquille River, can you imagine the golf land that still exists in many of these hills, filled with sand and forest scrub, and we're talking land not unlike that of Pine Valley!

There exist a possibility that not just Bandon Dunes being an epicenter of great golf in the United States, there may have been the possibility that it could have been as earth-shattering as the Eastern Coast of Great Britain; the Melbourne Sandbelt, and the longest island in New York!

What makes it even more impressive to me is that it would all serve as the impetus for a great sci-fi tale that still today manages to entertain and enlighten. The political intrigue of the Dune books is not only unique, but it makes the subject of science fiction all that more palatable!



 
« Last Edit: November 22, 2004, 05:05:01 AM by Tommy_Naccarato »

TEPaul

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2004, 05:56:45 AM »
This is a potentially fascinating subject TommyN. I just might have to put on my Max Behr hat and get deep in to the pyschological reasons and meaning to Man and/or the golfer behind this type of thing---eg massive areas of sand--ie DUNE!

Is it fundamentally Man's psychological struggle to overcome his inherent "fear" or "hopelessness" in dealing with the Natural World and its dominance, and perhaps inherent fear of, albeit fascination with, areas of this earth that would not sustain man's existence or even allow him to penetrate and cross such vast areas of sand---eg to conquer the natural world? (remember some of the semi-parable shenninigans that went on with "Blondie" and the other two in desert areas in that semi-hilarious but probably hallmark movie "The Good, the Bad and The Ugly"?).

The actual Sahara Desert totally fascinated the early English explorers not the least reason being their inherent fear of not surviving it even in an attempt to cross over it! (Was the inherent danger and natural inhospitableness of the Sahara Desert or the crossing of an ocean the forerunner of our latter day attempts to get to the Moon?).

I wonder what Charles Darwin had to say about it, and better yet, if he did have something to say about it I wonder if his grandson, Bernard Darwin, ever put it into some pyschological contenxt to golf, the golfer and golf architecture!

Interesting!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2004, 06:08:58 AM by TEPaul »

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2004, 06:11:38 AM »
Tom,
So much can be made from this, and I can't believe I'm up at this hour still reading about it!

Here is another snippet:

Herbert's second major starting point was They Stopped the Moving Sands, an article he'd written in 1958 about the United States Department of Agriculture's ecological experiments in Florence, Oregon. The USDA found that they could prevent the sand dunes from overwashing the highways simply by planting barriers of grass! Herbert chartered a single-engine Cessna airplane and flew over the experiment to take notes and photographs. As he watched the dunes roll by below, Herbert was suddenly seized by a powerful emotional surge. He realized that "...A sand dune is just a kind of fluid, only it takes longer for it to move. It creates waves that, when you see them from the air, are analogous to waves in a sea."1 The San Francisco Sunday Examiner and Chronicle's California Living magazine never published the article, but Herbert had caught the spark he'd been looking for; the seed he would nurture into Dune.

But there is even more, in fact its pretty interesting to read just how intense the notion for the novel really was.  I first read Dune in or around 1978 or 79, on the advice of my classical guitar teacher. It was a book(s) that grasped my attention for many years. I read them all up to Dune: Chapter House, and then lost interest when Frank Herbert died. His son and another writer have continued with series, following the lines of his Father's notes, but many true Dune fans can't stand the books.  Much like enjoying the difference between Billy Bell Sr. and Billy Bell Jr.! ;D

Anyway, I found this interesting site:
http://www.jitterbug.com/origins/dune.html

It explains everything A-Z about Dune, the inspirations and even the Genesis of the series of books. It even goes into detail about the complete utter failure of the motion picture by one of my favorite directors--David Lynch.

While this concept was still fresh in my mind, I went to Florence, Oregon, to write a magazine article about a US Department of Agriculture project there. The USDA was seeking ways to control coastal (and other) sand dunes. I had already written several pieces about ecological matters, but my superhero concept filled me with a concern that ecology might be the next banner for demagogues and would-be-heroes, for the power seekers and others ready to find an adrenaline high in the launching of a new crusade.

Our society, after all, operates on guilt, which often serves only to obscure its real workings and to prevent obvious solutions. An adrenaline high can be just as addictive as any other kind of high.

Ecology encompasses a real concern, however, and the Florence project fed my interest in how we inflict ourselves upon our planet. I could begin to see the shape of a global problem, no part of it separated from any other-social ecology, political ecology, economic ecology. It's an open-ended list.--Frank Herbert from Omni Magazine's Dune Genesis






JakaB

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2004, 06:17:58 AM »
Tommy,

Did you think the movie failed...I didn't read the book but thought the movie was the best of all time..I really like the fact that the little girl grew up to be the red headed young slut on Cybil..

TEPaul

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2004, 06:30:30 AM »
TommyN:

It's probably true to say that Mankind, or even the golfer, will not last forever on this earth of ours. What do you think it will be that'll eventually get the best of us and annihilate us---nucleur war, the second coming of the Ice Age or the DUNE? Personally, I think there's a pernicous Bush that was discovered in Texas about a decade ago that may lead to the end of us all!  ;)

Either that or the entire world will be Christian! Which of course brings up probably the most important question of all. Is it Islam and it's radical fundamental religous beliefs and the use of their known techniques of terrorism we should be worried about or will they eventually get the better of us all with what they really do know something about---eg SAND!?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2004, 06:39:29 AM by TEPaul »

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2004, 07:57:48 AM »
Tommy, is this some longwinded, overly academic effort of desparation on your part to explain that you think there's hope for Sandpines GC after all?

ForkaB

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2004, 08:01:12 AM »
Tommy

It seems obvious to me that Rees was just following the dicta of Frank Herbert at Sandpines by planting all those non-native grasses to help halt the inrush of dunes in Oregon.  I bet Max Behr would have approved too.  I mean, how can you have lines of "charm" or "instinct" when the lines (dunes) are constantly moving!?

A_Clay_Man

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2004, 09:23:59 AM »
If it's ultimately determined that the moving of the lines of both charm and instinct, are at the heart of natural GCA, would that make the moveable island green in Couer d'Alene, the epitome?

JakaB

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2004, 09:42:27 AM »
If the movie was recast with architects playing the leads...would Tom Doak get the part played by Sting....can't you just see him in collaboration with Nicklaus playing the part of the Baron...

ForkaB

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2004, 09:42:46 AM »
Touche, Adam

I wonder why Max Behr never wrote about the floating green.......

Adam_F_Collins

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2004, 10:08:39 AM »
Tommy,

Ahh, yes. Good ol' Frank. I read the books many years ago and still think of his insights often. Very interesting articles about his other life.

I hope you've read ALL of the original Dune books...

I haven't yet read his son's work.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2004, 10:14:55 AM »
If you're into dunes (and I love the Oregon Dunes Nat'l Rec area), check out Buffalo, NY in the winter.

There the dunes are snow, not sand, but they can be just as overwhelming.  People have died in their cars when a snow dune (really, drift) swallows their car while they slept.  People have been held in their homes by the snow dunes for days.

If you ever drive I-90 up there, you'll see snow (dune) fences along the road to keep the dunes from encroaching on the Thruway.

It actually is very fascinating.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2004, 10:39:45 AM »
Brad,
I hoping all of that sand eventually fills-in that pit which Rees calls the 16th, 17th & 18th holes!

John,
The slut from Cybil? Well to let you know, she's a mensa and knew how to talk at sixth months old. That's why Lynch gave her the part! As far as the part of the Barron, I was sort of picturing you for that part. You do remember he was supposed to be gay. ;D

For Dune fans, the movie was both good and bad. Good, because it allowed Dune fans to see just how bad Hollywood could screw-up a perfectly good story, and bad because the story seemed to have nothing to do with the book at all.

Rcih,
Where exactly does Frank Herbert stand on the Goodale scale of writers? Good, bad or indifferent?

Dan, Buffalo in the winter? No thank you! ;)

Adam,
I have read all of the the Frank Herbert Dune books, although the last two were getting really hard to fathom. Its was just too much going on and way too much sensory overload! The first three however were pretty good.






Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2004, 10:45:16 AM »
I think the greatest effect the film Dune can have on architecture is to remind us that great courses ought have as many interesting undulations as Barbora Kodetova ;D
Jim Thompson

Adam_F_Collins

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2004, 10:47:18 AM »
Tommy,

I loved the fifth one - Heretics of Dune. But I didn't understand what happened at the end of Chapterhouse.

At the end of the fourth (I think) As an afterward - He writes a tribute to his wife, who had died of cancer - about how honored he was to have known her. That was one of the most moving little pieces I've ever read.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Frank Herbert's Dune and the Oregon Coast
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2004, 10:55:47 AM »
Tommy, Give Sheryl a call. She saw the film twice and didn't get it.