Could a "great Par3" course work?

[Brian_Gracely]

Time and time again people seem to list Par3s are their favorite hole on a course, or the most memorable, or the most timeless.  Maybe it's because they have a good chance of making Par (the joy factor), or they are easy to snap-shot in their mind (the photo factor), or maybe because they don't often change because of technology (the history factor).  

So if somebody assembled an 18 hole course of the greatest Par3s, do you think it might be a sustainable venture as a private club or even a public course?  Sure they would be replicas and not all aspects could be replicated (Pacfiic Ocean for 15/16 at CPC??), and wind would obviously be helpful on several holes, but it would require less land, provide a faster pace of play, and great variety.  Would it be something that interested you?  Maybe it would actually be 27 holes?

Redan
Eden
Biarritz
Short
#17 at TPC
#5 at Prestwick
#12 or 16 at ANGC
Postage Stamp
#10 at WFW
#11 at Shinnecock
#14 at Portrush
#5 or #10 at Pine Valley
#8 at Oakmont
#17 at Carnoustie
#9 at Pinehurst #2
#11 at CC of Charleston
2/20 hole at Engineers


<others....>

[THuckaby2]

I'm not sure it would work... it would be a cool novelty, but could you sell it as a home-course kinda thing as a private?  To get enough repeat play as a public the green fee would have to be pretty low... It's an interesting idea, in any case.  And for damn sure it would be very fun to play.

One thing's for certain:  get that over-rated and overhyped #10 WFW off the list, and replace it with a truly great par 3 from that great course like #3 or #7.

 

[Kevin_Reilly]

Maybe someone can post the "inspired by" holes at Lynn's course in Simi Valley, Sinaloa.

Sinaloa Golf Club

[peter_p]

Las Vegas' Angel Park has a Cloud Nine par 3 course which is advertised as being modeled on the great short holes. Even lighted for night play. As much as I love golf, there are a lot better things to see and do in Vegas at night. I don't remember a single hole, but it did loosen kinks after a long drive.

[cary lichtenstein]

Brian:

Yes and No

I don't think it works solely by itself, but...

We have 54 holes here in Jupiter, 18 very good holes at Admirals Cove if you have a chance to play them, and 27 disjointed holes on our other course, basically 3-9's of less than good golf.

I wanted them to redo the whole thing, which they did for $6 million. My concept was a great par 3, and great 18, which could have been done easily, as that is all the land they have enuf for.

The board thought my idea was "stupid", and redid the 27 for $6, and while they cleaned it up from years of overgrowth, and removed trees that are no longer allowed in Florida, they did not spend the money as wisely as they could have, cuz we have what we had, and that was a C- at best.

[Jeff_Mingay]

From a design perspective, this is a very interesting proposition. In fact, Rod Whitman and I have talked with two potential clients (one in Alberta and another in Ontario) about designing/building a par 3 course. Neither project has come to fruitation, and unfortunately may not ever. But the prospects excite me.

[Mike Benham]

Brian -

I had similar thoughts along the lines of par-3s (and no it wasn't the kummel ...).

Many detest the demise of the traditional course due to the technology of the clubs and balls and the increasing distances that golfers are hitting the ball.

For the most part, the distance issue is most evident on the tee ball, rendering traditionally long par-4s and 5s to driver and mid or short iron.

So, what if, we eliminate driving from the game, essentially migrate to a course of all par-3s.  Like one of those silly season skills game, let's put the tee blocks in the fairway, left side, right side, the variables are there to MAKE the player work the ball on the approach (tee shot) and put the shotmaking back into the game.

Wouldn't you love to see a Master's where the committee put the tee blocks in various parts of the fairways, take #15 as an example ... most patrons would love to see the "tees" set at about 210 yards from the green and having the players trying to hold the green, personally, I would love to see the "tees" at about 110 yards off of a downhill lie to a front pin position ... that would be big pucker factor on a Sunday afternoon ...

Think about it, pick your favorite par-4 or 5, think of where the most challenging, risk / reward approach shot comes from in the fairway and ... bingo, you've got yourself a killer par-3 ...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Friar's Head has the best par 3 course I have seen to date. Jusat a knock down drag out winner and all-time champ.

Some of the greens are unbelievable on it. A huge credit to the Ax and Rod Whitman.

[Jeff_Mingay]

You're right, Tommy!

The par 3 course at Friar's Head was kinda like Rod's "pet project" there, with help from all the others of course, including Dave.

One of the things I like most about it is, there are no tees. You play from wherever, off undulating ground to the next green.

Hey, how good is Lynn's par 3 in LA? It has an interesting "design lineage" - Geoff Shackelford concepts constructed by Axland and Proctor, right?

[Steve Lapper]

Tommy & Jeff....

   You know I'm as much a FH fan as anyone, but their par 3 course doesn't hold even one candle up to the Hickory Course at Hamilton Farm.

   I think it's safe to say it's the best of it's kind in this hemisphere.

   Maybe you need to see it

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

It's an interesting thought, but I wonder about pace of play and cost.  Could you justify the price and time to play the par 3 only golf course.

I like the idea of using the famous par 3's of the world as the lure.

Tommy Naccarato,

Have you forgotten about Pine Valley and Augusta National ?

[TEPaul]

If you could do something like get Tom Fazio to build a great par 3 NINE HOLE course and populate the club up with about fifty exclusive members to the tune of about $300k each would you say that should be considered a "great par 3 course that works"?

[Tom_Doak]

I would love to try this, but I'm going to say that even the best par-3 course you could build, would not be a great success as a stand-alone project.  People just like to hit the driver.

My proof is that no one has done it yet.

That par-3 course in the back of George Thomas's book would be better than anything I've seen in that weight class.

[SPDB]

Tommy Naccarato,

Have you forgotten about Pine Valley and Augusta National ?

Pat - You seem to be forgetting who co-designed the short course at PVGC.  Once you remember, 50% of your question to Tommy will be answered.

[Scott_Burroughs]

How good is Headwaters neighboring Wade Hampton?  (Adam M, your slightly biased opinion will do... )

[SPDB]

very good, and I'm not saying that just b/c it was a job on which my friend's design maiden was broken. talk about biased! (actually, i'll let TommyN do the talking on that particular bias, since it is one of his favorite defenses/attacks with me).  It might even come up on this thread!

Most people think it is Wade Hampton's, but its an independent club.

[Brian_Gracely]

I would love to try this, but I'm going to say that even the best par-3 course you could build, would not be a great success as a stand-alone project.  People just like to hit the driver.

My proof is that no one has done it yet.

That par-3 course in the back of George Thomas's book would be better than anything I've seen in that weight class.

What if some of the holes were driver length, for example, a 270-310yd Biarritz?  Haven't you said that the Par of the hole doesn't need equal shots to the green plus two putts?

[Steve Lapper]

Lapper

Hickory would be better if it were walkable........

 

Vostiniak:

   It is eminently walkable....just aks those on GCA who have. Perhaps if you weren't in such a hurry to make your always- about-access adventures and didn't complain so much about how old you were and how bad your back was/is (just remember, I'm 47 and have had 11 knee surgeries, thus qualified to discuss pain and handicapped status)...even you might be able to walk it!
    I take a small carry bag and walk it way more often than with a cart.
    You complain quite a bit for someone who gets around as much you do. You are right about one thing though....your wife has a better architectural eye and ability to appease than you. But them again, for many who have hosted or befriended you in the past, that's not a terribly hard thing to do.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I am lucky enough to live near a very good Par-3 course at the Adlington Golf Centre.  I presume it's a Hawtree design as they did the original Par-3 course here - a pitch-and-putt course with holes varying between ca 50 and 85 yards.  This new course ranges from 110 yards to 249.  Two holes are over 220 yards and they run in opposite directions so I and most older golfers are going to require at least one wooden-club shot.  There is some excellent sculpting around the greens and there are several very tricky recovery shots to be played if you miss a green in the wrong place.  There are also mounds to complicate the approach if you choose to run the ball onto the green.  It's very exposed to the wind which makes club selection tricky.  The greens are, I presume, USGA spec (I hear what you say about the limitations of USGA) but at least they are eminently playable and pretty consistent - far better than any other pay-and-play facility in the area.  They are not wildly contoured but they are more interesting than many of the local private club greens.  It costs £8 ($12) for 9 holes, total distance is 1519 yards with two other sets of tees giving 1373 and 1205 yards.  There is some serious rough if you stray off line but there is plenty of space on the course so there is very little chance of being hit by a stray ball from another tee.  The mowing has been set up to provide rough, semi-rough and fairway with some carry required on those holes that the 24-handicapper is not going to be able to reach in one shot. There are no trees, so it feels quite linksy.  I enjoy playing it.  My wife and I can get round in about an hour which is very often as much joint free time as we can find in the day.  I have mentioned the pitch-and-putt course in a thread once before.  It is a very good example of thoughtful design, accommodating for the beginner, yet thought-provoking for the skilled golfer.  Miss any of the greens and the recovery needs great touch.  I'd far rather play either of these courses than any of the other pay-and-play courses locally, even if they do have par 4s and par 5s.  None of them gets near the interest or conditioning of Adlington.

[ChasLawler]

Maybe Lester George will chime in on this thread. I’ve heard rumors he’s been hired to design a private par 3 course just outside Richmond.

[jim_lewis]

Tom Paul's post #13 (above) describes the Headwaters Club in Cashiers, NC just about perfectly. I am not sure they have as many as 50 members and the price tag may be slightly less than $300K, but it was designed by Fazio and is the best par three course I have played, including ANGC and Pine Valley. There is an outstanding variety of shots required. I have hit everything from a gap wedge to a 3 wood. Each hole is an excellent design and the conditioning is remarkable. Any combination of four holes taken off this course are better than the group of four par threes on Wade Hampton next door. Also, the practice ground is every bit as good as the course. Unfortunately, very few get to play it. Few members means few guests.

Almost all of the holes seem to fit the site very naturally. I think it would be very difficult to find property that would offer 18 natural sites for par 3's.  I nine-hole course seems to be enough. Besides, it is fun to play it 2 or 3 times, back to back,

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Here is the problem with a par 3 course.  Male golfers have a macho problem that they are not playing "real" golf unless they are swinging full with their drivers.  Thus you can only attract regular usage from senior, women and juniors up to the age of 15.  Therefore it is not going to be a highly profitable venture.
To be profitable all one needs to do is insert 3 par 4's (9 hole course) where the driver can be used.  Now you can charge a higher green fee, attract all golfers, male, women and seniors.  But keep in mind the kind of beginners or infrequent players who will use this course will require a large piece of turf.  These players have no idea where their tee shots are going.  And you must be careful in the design to avoid penal hazards, some beginners will have trouble finishing a hole.  Can you say no water hazards?  Golf needs more facilities like this and the sport will never grow until some are built.  However there aren't many developers, cities or even architects who will do this.  Cities are now mostly building munis for the purpose of a large positive cash flow.
On the right sight it can be a good thing.  Long Beach, CA has an executive nine at Recreation Park which used to play more than 80,000 rounds annually.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Yes, I've been told that Adlington is by Martin Hawtree.