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Mike Erdmann

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More Bandon Trails photos
« on: November 15, 2004, 01:38:21 PM »
Spent a wonderful Saturday afternoon playing the finished holes at Bandon Trails (holes 1-5, 17-18).  With a light fog rolling in off the ocean and the mid-day sun, it was pretty crappy for taking photos, but I did take some nonetheless.  

Trails is an entirely different feel than Bandon or Pacific.  The first two holes start in the dunes before you cross the road and head into the forest.  Especially with the forest holes, Trails has a much more intimate feel than the other two courses.  I'm not going to go out on a limb and say it's a better course than Pacific Dunes.  There's no way anyone can legitimately say that, with only seven holes finished and available for play.  But at the same time, I enjoyed these seven holes every bit as much as Pacific Dunes.  We'll just have to see once the whole course opens next June.  

Some of the photos look a little oversaturated, but that's my lack of Photoshop expertise and just doing this quickly.  Didn't get any photos of the first hole, unfortunately, so have to start with #2.


Neat downhill par 3 that's has more room left than it looks.




You can see here that the 2nd has plenty of room left and short.




Looking back from the 2nd green up to the tee on the dune.




View from the 3rd tee.




Fairway bunker short of the 3rd green.




Looking back from the green up the 3rd fairway.




The fourth hole is just a fantastic par 4, playing into the prevailing summer north wind.  From the photo, that ridge appears to be a backstop on the left side of the photo, but it actually runs diagonally left to right down the middle of the fairway.  Left of the ridge and you're flirting with hidden bunkers on the left side of the fairway, much right of the ridge and you have a somewhat blind shot to the pin.  The green is actually in line with the right edge of the fairway in the distance.  This is a hole I could spend hours playing and figuring out.




View of the 4th green from the left side of the aforementioned ridge.




Greenside bunker left of 4th green.




Bunkers on back right of 4th green.




Wonderful short par 3 with a diabolical green.




Hard to capture in a photo, but the 5th green is a wild one!  Greens are still pretty slow, but I'm imagining that when they speed up, balls will funnel towards that bunker on the right.  This shot is taken from short-left of the green.




17th green from the tee.  The prevailing north wind in the summer is blowing from the right, so that bunker is really going to make you pucker if the pin is tucked behind it.




Back to the dunes.  This is the view from the tee on 18.  Fairway has more room than it looks once you get up there.




View from the fairway to the 18th green.




This shot is actually from the 1st fairway, looking backwards up 18 from the side.





Bandon Trails clubhouse adjoining the 18th green.






« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 11:51:43 PM by Mike Erdmann »

Brad Swanson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2004, 01:55:29 PM »
Thanks for posting the pics, Mike.  I disagree with your assessment of the conditions resulting in poor pictures.  I have not yet been to Bandon, but the conditions you took these photos in exactly fits my mind's eye of the place, and I think they look great! ;)

Cheers,
Brad Swanson
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 05:32:52 PM by Brad Swanson »

GeoffreyC

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 01:55:54 PM »
Mike- Thanks for the photos

OK- I'll bite

Who am I to comment from photos

However

#2 looks to be quite ordinary. While there is roon short and left the photo makes it look like the tall hay is very close to the right side of the green and could create all sorts of lost balls, pace of play and hack out problems.

#4 looks great from the drive, however, the greensite looks like you could actually putt out of that left front greenside bunker.  It doesn't look like much of a hazard from a playability standpoint. It also appears that there will be lots of unplayable lies and possibly lost balls just off the green pad area.

Are these impressions from the photos accurate?

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 01:57:22 PM »
Mike,

Thanks for posting these great shots.  I love the look of the 3rd hole from the tee.  The placement of central bunkers scattered throughout the fairway creates strategic options and a unique look.  

It's a shame more modern courses don't employ the tactic of wide fairways with some centralized or pot bunkers.  The trend now, especially on so called "championship" courses is to narrow the fairways and grow the rough.  However, it seems like it's often the randon pot bunkers or central hazards on links courses that give good golfers fits.  I guess though it takes hard and fast conditions to really take advantage of this design.  

Your description of the ridge on #4 makes it sound very interesting.  That appears to be a hole that will give many a player fits the first few times playing it.  

#18 looks like it could be a bear.  Isn't it about 450 uphill and into the wind from the back tees?  

Michael Plunkett

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2004, 02:09:02 PM »
The view from the third tee is what dreams are made of.

johnk

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 02:13:17 PM »
I'll second what Michael Plunkett just said!

First thought that comes to mind on that shot is: Sunningdale in the Northwest... :)

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 02:28:22 PM »
Thanks for sharing!
3 and 17 look incredible.
The fairway bunker short of the green on 3 looks perfect.

-Ted

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2004, 03:06:44 PM »
Thanks very much Mike.  Awesome.

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2004, 03:17:03 PM »
#2 looks to be quite ordinary. While there is roon short and
left the photo makes it look like the tall hay is very close to
the right side of the green and could create all sorts of lost
balls, pace of play and hack out problems.

Geoffrey,

The pic above of #2 must be from the 143 tees, and appears
to be not terribly difficult, but how about from the tee farther
left (more blind - reminds me of #10 at FH a little):


 
or from what appears to be the 168 tees:



or from farther back, I believe from the 213 tees:




Did you see the prior thread of Bandon Trails photos?

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=15244
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 03:18:17 PM by Scott_Burroughs »

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2004, 05:24:19 PM »
I have to echo Geoff's comments about the abutting hay
on the fairways or greens. It struck me as I viewed the
18th Tee shot photo, which appears blind, and then the
shot of the fairway with gunch running up to the fairway.
Perhaps they were trying to attempt a PVGC approach with
wide fairways but trouble just off. I can't really tell the
width of these fairways, but some spots look like trouble.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2004, 07:14:58 PM »
The tee shot on #3 looks a lot like #4 and #5 at Talking Stick North.  C&C really do a great job on central bunker features as mentioned above.   #5 Cuscowilla has a HUGE central bunker!  What about other C&C courses, is this a feature of all of their courses, ie Friars Head and Sand Hills et al?

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2004, 09:14:29 PM »
The first photo of the par 3 green which is huge (long) looks very similar to the 10th at Friars Head.

Don Dinkmeyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2004, 09:19:17 PM »
Wow - awesome pictures and thanks for posting. I've been to Ireland twice and this is as much the real deal...

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2004, 11:16:55 PM »
My first thought - Cypress Point.  Anybody else?

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

GeoffreyC

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2004, 09:31:40 AM »
Scott

Yes the 2nd looks better in your photos from back tees. There is certainly a similar look to #10 at Friars Head where that amazing dune creates a blind area front left of the green and probably #6 at Sand Hills as well.

No- I had not seen them before

I still feel that the hay just right of the green will create a problem for play (especially now that I know the hole can play over 200 yards. Same for all that brush, wood and bushes IMMEDIATELY off the 4th green.  Can you say "I'll take an unplayable lie".

Otherwise the course looks brilliant and will certainly be a great addition to the complex. I will make a point of going to see it and I also can't wait to hear what the "theme" for course #4 will be.

Raphael_Larson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2004, 10:53:05 AM »
Can someone please explain whether the entrance road is going to be removed/re-routed?  When I was last there in July, the road ran through the course, and if I recall correctly even bisected the third hole right in front of the tee boxes.  (The photo from the third tee boxes looks like it is angled to hide the road.)  I have heard that the road will be re-routed but frankly don't see where it will be rerouted to and remain out of sight.  My preference would be to close the road entirely and make the road that passes by the chrome lake rooms the new entrance.  If the road is not removed, I think having traffic pass by during your round and having to cross the road twice during the round will detract from what appears will be an amazing golfing experience.

JakaB

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2004, 11:14:17 AM »
Looks like we have another top ten course on our hands...I can't wait for Bandon to have 100 courses so the rating lists will be obsolete....or maybe Golfweek will juat have to go to three catagories.....Classic, Modern and Bandon...

Brian_Gracely

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2004, 11:14:35 AM »
If the road is not removed, I think having traffic pass by during your round and having to cross the road twice during the round will detract from what appears will be an amazing golfing experience.

Doesn't seem to be a problem at The Old Course, Oakmont, Cypress Point, Pinehurst #2, etc..

Mike_Cirba

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2004, 11:27:12 AM »
I'm not sure I get it.   :-\

Unlike my friend redanman, I can look at these photos and  easily stand without embarrassment.   ;D

I think Geoffrey asks some good questions, and I don't think I care for what I'm seeing of hole number two from any length.  Much of the rest of it looks pretty derivative from both other architects as well as their own resume.  I had hoped for something fresh or original, I guess.  

I also predict it won't be long before a lot of that stuff around the greens is cut back to speed resort play.

I'll just have to get out there and check it out in person...  

 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 11:30:49 AM by Mike_Cirba »

Brian_Gracely

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2004, 11:44:30 AM »
Wasn't there a thread at one point that talked about the
bunkering being done more in the style of Royal Melbourne or the other great courses in Australia, with the cleaner line edges?  

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2004, 11:58:05 AM »
Much of the rest of it looks pretty
derivative from both other architects as well as their own
resume.  I had hoped for something fresh or original, I guess.  

Mike,

This is exactly what John K said about Cuscowilla after he
returned!  Here was my response to him:

Quote
I haven't played Cuscowilla, but why does a course
have to have something truly original?  With 17000 courses in
the U.S. alone (and however many NLE and the 1000's in the
ROTW), there's not much that hasn't been done before.  It's
just that some features done before are better than others.

The meteorite crater bisecting #5 isn't original?  Where have
you seen it before?

And I stand by that.  What hasn't been done before?  There's
not much new and different that even Mike Strantz hasn't
done before.  But if you incorporate good concepts well on a
good piece of property, then you'll have something special.

As for Bandon Trails, you know what these pictures
(particularly the non-dunes holes) remind me of (based on
pictures)?   Primarily the Heathland courses near London and
somewhat less so of the Sandbelt courses of Oz.  And we
don't have that in the U.S., so that's "original" for the U.S.,
not to mention different from the other two courses at Bandon.

Raphael_Larson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2004, 12:05:31 PM »
If the road is not removed, I think having traffic pass by during your round and having to cross the road twice during the round will detract from what appears will be an amazing golfing experience.

Doesn't seem to be a problem at The Old Course, Oakmont, Cypress Point, Pinehurst #2, etc..

While true, if given a choice, I'd prefer no road.  To me, a road seems inconsistent with the Bandon environment and should be avoided if at all possible -- something that may or may not have been the case at the great courses you listed.  

A big part of the joy of the place is its seclusion, a road and traffic just off the fairway would be psychologically and visually dislocated from the rest of the resort experience.  

George Pazin

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Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2004, 01:02:51 PM »

View from the fairway to the 18th green.




This shot is actually from the 1st fairway, looking backwards up 18 from the side.

Wonderful land movement. My biggest complaint with many modern courses is how smoothed over they look.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

GeoffreyC

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2004, 01:03:01 PM »
Mr. JakaB

You have heard from 2 GW panelists in this very thread that offered highly critical evaluations of these photos. Yet you still stay on your high horse about the Golfweek list and your perceived views about its biases.

Why the hell is it that you seem to be the one who brings up ratings and lists FAR more often then anyone else in this discussion group yet you hate them.  Is your ratings-envy showing?  ???  ::) Get over it.

JakaB

Re:More Bandon Trails photos
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2004, 01:19:07 PM »
Geoffrey,

I am impressed by the critical reviews the Golfweek panelists have made from the pictures posted on this thread.   But...I have no doubt in my mind that Bandon Trails is at least as good if not better than Bandon Dunes.....It's kinda like knowing a Lexus is more dependable than a Peugot...you don't need to drive it to find out.   When Golf Digest knew they screwed up when Shadow Creek debuted in the top ten they did something about it.....when the Bandon Resort over heavies the Golfweek Modern list you will find the same mistake will need to be amended....it is really quite simple....Throw out all the old votes for Bandon Dunes letting it settle back to around 40 something and have Pacific and Bandon Trails sandwich Friars Head somewhere in the top 10...kinda like 3 and 9 or so.....You have to get Pete Dye his due as the greatest living architect or just admit you don't know what you are talking about....It's not all about the views baby...

Where did I ever say I hate the ratings..
« Last Edit: November 16, 2004, 01:21:12 PM by John B. Kavanaugh »

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