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Bill Gayne

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Annapolis Golf Club
« on: November 14, 2004, 10:28:00 PM »
I was told by an Annapolis resident that the land Annapolis Golf Club sits on is planned for residential development and will likely be plowed under in the next year. Is there anything there worth seeing before it's plowed under?

Thanks.
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Tyler Kearns

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2004, 11:14:52 PM »
Bill,

Cornish & Whitten list Charles "Steamshovel" Banks as the architect of record at Annapolis Roads GC. Therefore, the course eminated from the Macdonald/Raynor school of design - which is a fairly sound heritage. It really depends on how much & the quality of the work done there over the years?

TK
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Bill Gayne

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2004, 07:33:57 AM »
Tyler,

Thanks for the GCA lineage. The person from Annapolis I was talking with enjoyed playing the course because it was nine holes without irrigation. He didn't know much about the history of the course except that it was from the Twenties.

Bill
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George_Bahto

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2004, 09:03:05 AM »
I'm sorry to hear about this - I'll post some interesting info on this course and especially its founding later tonite or tomorrow - it was supposed to be something very spcl but ran into the Great Depression (which wasn't exactly great)

gb
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

david h. carroll

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2004, 10:43:16 AM »
Bill-Yes it is worth seeing!!  The bunkering, albeit grassed in, is amazingly deep, huge and severe.  The redan #4 is the most impressive I have ever seen.  Apaprently there were to be 36 holes there with a great deal of it playing along the Chesapeake, but alas, the Depression hit.

As to the real estate development, the local Catholic church is trying to buy it for ball fields and real estate development.  Efforts to develop the land have been shot down numerous times in the past by residents.
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Bill Gayne

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 12:49:52 PM »
David,

Thanks for the info. I  get to the Annapolis area a couple of times a year, I'll make a point to stop and play the course. Hopefully, development efforts will be stopped this time also.

Bill
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Rob_Waldron

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2004, 11:39:46 AM »
If anyone has a copy of the aerial of this course could you please post it. It was posted back in August of 2002 and I cannot view the photo. Thanks
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Lou_Duran

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2004, 12:14:51 PM »
We are not talking about the U.S. Naval Academy's course, are we?
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Jim Franklin

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2004, 12:31:25 PM »
No, they are not talking about the Naval Academy course. It is a nine holer they are speaking of.
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Mr Hurricane

david h. carroll

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2004, 03:39:13 PM »
Lou-
USNAGC = Flynn
Annapolis Roads GC = Banks
Gibson Island = CB Mac

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George_Bahto

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2004, 08:58:09 PM »
as promised:

The story of Annapolis Roads course in MD ....  very interesting but the completed project was blown out by the depression.

The “project” involved the building of many houses (240, I think), a 36-hole course designed and built by Charles Banks (Raynor had passed on).

It also involved the Olmstead Bros for all the landscape architecture of the huge site and Fred Ruth (Mtn Lake) as the promoter of the project.

Better yet, the entire project was to be overseen by one of the greats of the time, the renown architect, John Russell Pope (who designed so many bldgs in Washington DC) .....   I mean this is some lineup.

Only 9 holes ever got built (I have concept drawing of the entire 36)

It totally dropped dead.

The bunkers are some of best Banks ever built - now all grass bottoms.

One hole has been changed entirely but much of the other 8 is pretty intact.

A couple years ago I spoke with a gentleman who lived behind 3-green for many years and he gave me a lot of the details ... when book #2 comes out (oh my), the whole story will be in it.

It took me a while to figure out the meaning of the name "Annap. Roads" ..... they used to park battleships and other large vessels off shore at the end of the peninsula - it has to do with that.

gb
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Adam_Messix

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2004, 02:49:15 PM »
George--

Is it the 5th hole that has been changed at Annapolis?  It's the only hole on the course that seems out of character with the rest, most notably the deep depression just short of the green.  

It is a shame that Annapolis was never fully built, the sandy soil would have made for the kind of conditions that many of this site prefer.  

David Carroll is right, the bunkering there was something else.  Too bad they haven't restored this place, it would be something else.  In it's current state, it's barely a shell of itself.

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George_Bahto

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2004, 06:31:29 PM »
adam -yes it is #5 - i think they made it a par 5 or something - big-time out of place

the holes that were not built were excellent holes - similarly, the 18 holes that were never built at nearby Gibson Island were very reflective on Macdonald - very bold, sort of "i'll smack you right between your eyes" type of holes

that's another lost disaster, Gibson Island ..........

gb
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Adam_Messix

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Re:Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2004, 05:09:37 PM »
George--

I have heard through the grapevine that there are discussions taking place at Gibson Island about returning the lost nine holes and restoring the remainder of the course.  Not sure if they can completely restore #3 or not, but at least it's a start.  
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Scott Stambaugh

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2010, 11:18:30 PM »
Several older threads (including this one) on Annapolis Roads, now Annapolis Golf Club.  Looking at aerials, it appears the course still exists.

Anyone have any updated information on the fate of this course?

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Sean_A

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2010, 05:00:10 AM »
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New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Chechesee Creek & Old Barnwell

Britt Rife

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2010, 08:51:27 AM »

Annapolis Roads is still here.  Some of the greens are trashed, but I always find it a blast to play.  It's really like stepping back in time. Don't come expecting good conditions and you'll love it as a architecture junkie.
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George_Bahto

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2010, 12:21:04 PM »
it was to be restored  - was full speed ahead ! - but the project fell thru recently booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Britt Rife

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2010, 03:16:33 PM »

I asked the owner if he has the original Banks plans for the course.  He indicated that he does not.  Mr. Bahto--have you ever uncovered any interesting information about that course (such as why the 5th hole par 5 is so darned odd?)

I play there quite a bit and the Eden and Redan copycats are quite evident.  I had always wondered, however, if any of the rest of the holes played to the templates--their 7th hole seems to have some Road Hole qualties, but I might be imagining things.
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George_Bahto

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2010, 04:36:18 PM »
I have a great aerial of the course that shows the course close to what it was -----  I think a search will pull it up .... I know I posted it

great Redan and Eden and, yes, the 7th was a road hole green complex with no dog-leg tee shot - straight in, tee to green

hole 5 is the only altered hole (green) - I was planning to restore it as original ........ one of the reasons the green was changed was that Charles Banks put a bunker IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GREEN.  TRUE
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Britt Rife

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2010, 09:48:22 PM »

Wow.  Thanks so much, Mr. Bahto.  Now I can safely tell my partners of the 7th's Road Hole heritage.  And I am blown away by the news of the 5th.  You know, it's almost become a cliche with every golfer at that club--"If I ever win the Powerball, I'm buying the place and restoring it."  But because of GCA.com and Evangelist of Golf, I of course have known who to turn to for the restoration consulting.  So all that stands in the way is the Powerball.

I'm off to Scotland tomorrow.  Sadly for me, I won't be able to play N. Berwick--they are playing the qualifiers for the British Amateur there.  Always wanted to see that Redan.  But Cruden Bay and Dunbar shouldn't be so bad, I suppose.

Thanks again!

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Jonathan Cummings

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2010, 05:53:32 AM »
Uncle George!  Based on discussions at Bandon with you I've convinced my editor to do a piece on Annapolis Roads.  We'll talk.  J
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George_Bahto

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2010, 10:20:06 AM »
Jonathan - great news - maybe we can get them "hepped-up" again.  The city of Annapolis was going to annex the area - something to do with the water rights. A new mayor came in and the project fell apart.

Great story. It was to be 18 hole, with housing. All the big names were involved; Fred Ruth, Olmsted Bros and even the great John Russell Pope, of Washington, DC fame
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Mike Tanner

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2010, 02:20:30 PM »
"It took me a while to figure out the meaning of the name "Annap. Roads" ..... they used to park battleships and other large vessels off shore at the end of the peninsula - it has to do with that."

George Bahto,
I know your research would have revealed it, but a roads in nautical parlance is an abbreviation for roadstead, an enclosed area outside a harbor where a ship can lie at anchor.

The region where I live, Hampton Roads (formerly known as Tidewater) also incorporates this term. In this case the name refers to the waters at the confluence of the James River, Elizabeth River and Chesapeake Bay. According to lore, Hampton Roads is a shortened version of the Earl of Southampton's Roads, the earl being Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton, a member of the Virginia Company's governing council during the period of English colonization in the early 1600s.

To bring this digression back to the discussion at hand, a person could travel by boat from Annapolis Roads to Hampton Roads to play a classic Charles Banks course, Cavalier Golf & Yacht Club, on the shores of Linkhorn Bay in Virginia Beach.

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Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

George_Bahto

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Re: Annapolis Golf Club
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2010, 05:48:20 PM »
good going Mike

they used to refer to the area there as the Battleship Roads

when I first hears the story it made little sense

I really wanted to put that bunker in the middle of the 5th green ............. authenticity !!!!   :P   8)     ;D

perhaps we can put the drawing of the green and itz bunker in Jonathan's article !
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson
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