Consistency....

[TEPaul]

is it the ideal or the bugaboo of golf and golf architecture?

[RJ_Daley]

In playing the game, consistency is the ideal.  In golf course architecture, it is the anti-matter of grey matter.

[Joe Hancock]

Interesting, in context of my day. I toured Shoreacres, and on one hole there is a kick bank associated with a bunker beside a green that was at rough height. On another hole, the same situation only it was cut very closely. I questioned it because of the inconsistency, but there wasn't a concensus answer.

I don't know either.....

Joe

[T_MacWood]

Consistency of what? Consistently good by not great or bad designs? Consistently good but not great or bad golf holes? Consistency of philosophy or style?

[TEPaul]

Tom MacWood:

Consistency of sand surface
Consistency of sand color
Consistency of green speed throughout the year
Consistency of green firmness
Consistency of fairway width
Consistency of bunker depth depending on placement
Consistency of bunker surrounds
Consistency of level lies on tees (new)
Consistency of rough height
Consistency born of the "game mind of man" to make the
                 game as predictable as possible.
CONSISTENCY!

But if you want to tackle consistency of good but not great designs or holes or consistency of style or philosophy, that's cool too.

[T_MacWood]

TE
Several on your list fall under the catagory of maintenance...which the architect may or may not have controll over.

It appears you are trying to get at the predictabilty issue, that golfers demand predictability. IMO it is the architect's responsibility to introduce variety, it is much more stimulating and interesting....afterall Nature isn't always consistent. It is also his responsibility to disguise his motives and make every attempt to keep the golfer off ballance.

[TEPaul]

Tom MacW:

Very fine---you're getting warmer!

[A_Clay_Man]

Then I'd have to say Bugaboo.

The expectation of consistency is what should be penalized. (So why do the rest of us, have to hear the whining?)

The aware, and those prepared for the unexpected, wil likely suffer fewer penalties, in golf and life.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom P:  The last section of the Colt book I was reading yesterday had some letters from important golfers of the day; I can't remember whether it was J.H. Taylor or H. Hutchinson who said he believed that different greens should be maintained at different speeds, depending on their contour!

I agree that variety is the key, but how far do you want to go?

Most players, unfortunately, think of it in terms of fairness.

[TEPaul]

"Most players, unfortunately, think of it in terms of fairness."

TomD:

Fairness is the way most players refer to the subject of  consistency. As we all know most mention lack of consistency as 'unfair' when they get a bad bounce or a bad break or some bad luck but in almost every case it's their own, not someone else's.

Personally, I think a lot of this in modern times has been driven by a "stroke play mentality" because of the nature of handicap posting and just a general inability to take personal responsibility for too many things.

But at the bottom of all this I always do think of it in Max Behr's terms that both "nature" and its randomness (lack of consistency) is just increasingly losing its place in golf and architecture. As you probably know Behr based a lot of his philosophy on architecture on the fact that "Man" would be much less critical of some obstacle that penalized him if he thought it was natural (or natural looking) as opposed to artifical looking (looking like it was made by man).

More and more it seems to me as if Behr may've completely OVERestimated Man's sensibilties in that vein. In the ensuing 75-80 years since he wrote those things it looks like man, the golfer, is just plain crtical whether it's natural looking or man-made looking which leads me to believe the fixation on counting every stroke because of the handicap posting procedure as well as an increasing tendency to just not take personal responsibility is the primary reason for the ever increasing demand for consistency.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Tom MacWood:

Consistency of sand surface
Consistency of sand color
Consistency of green speed throughout the year
Consistency of green firmness
Consistency of fairway width
Consistency of bunker depth depending on placement
Consistency of bunker surrounds
Consistency of level lies on tees (new)
Consistency of rough height
Consistency born of the "game mind of man" to make the
                 game as predictable as possible.
CONSISTENCY!

Try maintaining inconsistant features and qualities in an inconsistent manner.

It would be impossible.[/color]


But if you want to tackle consistency of good but not great designs or holes or consistency of style or philosophy, that's cool too.

[Steve Curry]

Tom,

I like having to "figure it out", most particularly the score minded ones want consistency for simplicity of mental strain.  But I question if we achieved Consistency what would they have to complain about.  

Steve

[Willie_Dow]

Tom

When I think of consistency on a golf course, I think of sameness.  It is all maintained in the same way.

As I have said before, the game is becoming consistant - pitch and putt - equals boring to watch, but not yet boring to play.  

Perhaps the more interesting side of the game today is being developed by implements and balls.  Why ?  Because they are inconsistant.  A new fad equals a new attempt to conquer.

You're getting there with this discussion !

Willie

[TEPaul]

"But I question if we achieved Consistency what would they have to complain about."

Steve:

Golfers being what they are will probably always find something to complain about--that just seems to be the nature of the the golfer in ever increasing numbers. I'd like to see us work to acheive lack of consistency in some ways because the fact is no matter what we do golfers will never stop complaining about something other than themselves. If golf and architecture is ever going to maintain Nature's part in the game or sport its going to have to settle for lack of consistency somehow because that's just the way of the Natural world. How would we settle for lack of consistency in golf and architecture? Simply refrain from maintaining various things---eg let Nature itself maintain them in her own inevitable way!  

A good example of this would be what PVGC used to do with their sand areas. For whatever reasons they really never maintained their sand surfaces in the sense of raking out golfers footprints on anything remotely like a regular basis. Golfers at PVGC weren't even capable of doing it themselves since still today there are no rakes on that golf course and never have been. This is one of the best examples on this subject imaginable. But now the club's maintenance department maintains their sand areas every day. This is a massive chance for the course. It lost something really unique when that happened. They were one of the few courses in the world who did it that way---and they were #1 in the world with this unique facet of inconsistency.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Do you know of any golf course the maintains the inconsistencies, consistently ?

Do you know of any golf courses that maintains the inconsistencies, inconsistantly ?

Or, are you refering to features where Mother Nature can/will perform the maintainance at her whim ?

[Forrest Richardson]

Golf itself is consistently inconsistent. What polarizes the effects in golf are the few areas of courses which are known and familiar as one rounds the bends and goes from hole to hole on a given day in a given month with given weather and the given disposition of the chap who has cut the holes...

— the level teeing area, each seems so simple
— the improved sward of fairway, they seems so easy to hit from the tee
— the actual heart of any bunker, they are at least of known texture regardless of where they may lurk
— the green surfaces, each is relatively the same despite the zillions of combinations of undulations; the down, the up and the slips to either side

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul;

I wholly agree with you that the effort to "clean up" and "consistecize" (that's not a word, but it should be) the sandy playing areas at Pine Valley have meant the loss of something unique in the world of golf.  It has not only affected the uncertain playability of the course, but has detracted visually from the gorgeously natural setting, as well.  Bravo to you for having the guts to point this out.  

In general, the emphasis on "fairness", and its application to the modern game on classic courses has led to an ultimate loss of the sense of adventure and unpredictability to a great degree, as well.  It's why courses and clubs like Engineers feel that their wonderful uniqueness is somehow suddenly a liability to be sanitized and standardized.

Sad...