Where do you see Cuscowilla on a modified Doak Scale...

[JakaB]

I say modified because I prefer a decimal system to indicate which way you are leaning...for your pleasure here are a number of Doak rating criteria from 5 to 10...

5.  Well above average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home just to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

6.  A very good course, definitely worth a game if your're in town, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn't disappoint you.

7.  An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100miles. You can expect to find soundly designed, interestiong holes, good course conditioning, and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

8.  One of the very best courses in its region (althugh there are more 8's in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see.  Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and it will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout.

9.  An outstanding course--certainly one of the best in world--with no weaknesses in regard to condition, length, or poor holes.  You should see this course sometime in your life.

10.  Nearly perfect; if you skipped even one hole, you would miss something worth seeing.  If you haven't seen all the courses in this category, you don't know how good golf architecture can get.  Drop the book and call your travel agent--immediately.

[John_Conley]

Based on one viewing a few years ago, I'll say an 8.

[JakaB]

John,

How about a little why...and is it a long eight or a short eight..

[THuckaby2]

How Muccian of you, John... a question without giving your own answer... I am both proud and appalled.  

Put me in with John Conley - I give it an 8.  The way 7 is worded just doesn't do it for me.  No offense to Dick Daley - and he's way better at assessing these things than I am  - but I would travel across the country to play it again. In fact I plan to, perhaps fall 2005 or spring 2006.  It would be a hell of a spot for my college buddy group to go to.  I also think there is a lot there unique to the world of golf... holes 3-5 come to mind... 10-11... 14.... 15 green... 8 in terms of beauty combined with contour/strategy...

TH

[JakaB]

Being that I didn't see anything unique to the world of golf and the plastic ring around the greens would prevent me from advising any friends to travel over 100 miles to see it when courses like Eastlake and even Athens CC are in the region....I am at 6.5..

[THuckaby2]

That's cool by me, JK.  The plastic ring around the greens didn't bug me a bit - but then not much does bug me on a golf course that presents me with fun and challenging shots.  Obviously 6.5 seems pretty low to me by definition, as I can point to features that I do find unique to the world of golf (thus making it necessarily have to rise above 7), but hey, there are no easy answers in this life my friend.

An interesting question also though is how to divide up a trip to Atlanta... man there are a LOT of great courses within 2 hours of that city... so it is a tough call... but I am being very sincere when I say that I really can't imagine going to Atlanta and NOT playing Cuscowilla.  I really do want to go back.  And course whore me typically does prefer new courses to ones already played, when venturing far from home.  To me that speaks loudly about how great I found Cuscowilla to be.

TH

[Brent Hutto]

It's clearly at least a solid 7 and personally I'd say it rises into the 8 range. I wouldn't know for sure the difference between a strong 8 versus a 9 or a 10 since I've not played any of the great courses in the world.

The main criterion that makes it an 8 on your scale is "worth a special trip to see". I would without hesitation tell anyone I know who plays golf to go there if they can and see and experience Cuscowilla.

[JakaB]

Huck,

Doak gives Pasatiempo a 7...

[THuckaby2]

JK:

He does?  Hmmmm... sounds low to me.  Not that I doubt you, but I want to see the proof.    And what the hell, what does Doak know anyway.  

So perhaps my entire curve is too high.  But come on, that surprises you?

If Cuscowilla is an 8, then I give Pasa an 8.5.  It should be seen once in one's life, but it does have weaknesses (holes 6-7-8 bunched in, too many houses bordering).  That and only that prevents it from a 9 in my Huckaby scale.

TH

[Doug Sobieski]

I haven't been there in about three years, but I'd still put it at about 8.3778. Some may argue that it's really 8.4, and others will say it's closer to 8.375, but I'm comfortable with my assessment. I'll be there Monday (making a special trip to see it again!), and I can't wait to update my rating for you  

[JakaB]

Huck,

I kinda know your friends because they really are just typical guys when you take away all the glitter and fancy talk.....and if you are like me.....isn't 8 just a bit high.   Once you get past the orange bunkers and with the conditioning problems inherent to that part of the country...ie...bermuda run ups on a run me up course....is there anything that would really blow your friends away....I don't see it.   Hell, Doak gives the Honors Course a 7 and it is one of Pete Dye's best....I should have stuck with the 6 I told someone in private....but I didn't want to look like I don't get it...damn peer pressure..

[THuckaby2]

I haven't been there in about three years, but I'd still put it at about 8.3778. Some may argue that it's really 8.4, and others will say it's closer to 8.375, but I'm comfortable with my assessment. I'll be there Monday (making a special trip to see it again!), and I can't wait to update my rating for you  

Dammit Doug, can you please not be so wishy-washy and make a stand?

It's clearly 8.376, and you are absolutely starry-eyed and full of shit to give it that extra hundreth, let alone 18 thousandths.  What, did you make a few extra putts last time there?

 

TH

ps - here's some pudding proof, to me anyway:  I am jealous as hell that you are going there now.  Have fun, man!

[THuckaby2]

Huck,

I kinda know your friends because they really are just typical guys when you take away all the glitter and fancy talk.....and if you are like me.....isn't 8 just a bit high.   Once you get past the orange bunkers and with the conditioning problems inherent to that part of the country...ie...bermuda run ups on a run me up course....is there anything that would really blow your friends away....I don't see it.   Hell, Doak gives the Honors Course a 7 and it is one of Pete Dye's best....I should have stuck with the 6 I told someone in private....but I didn't want to look like I don't get it...damn peer pressure..

JK:

My friends would dig the place because:

a) they'd love those cabins - we could buy a bunch of beer and scotch, maybe even eat a meal or two there, the hanging out potential would be HUGE;

b) they'd love the bar, and the fact it's walking distance to the cabins;

c) the course has a lot of heroic forced carries and really fast greens;

d) We could do it pretty damn cheap, with caddies thrown in at not much more cost at all.

The shot on 10 alone would blow them away.  11 would freak them out.  They'd dig trying to drive 5, and reach 2 in two shots.  They'd love 3 even as it beat the shit out of them.  They'd love trying to cut a large chunk off of 4.  They could give a rattlesnake's rear about orange bunkers or anything of the architectural sort.

I feel confident we'd have a great trip there.  In fact the only things that makes me think they're gonna like Bandon more than Cuscowilla are the presence of the ocean and the volcano meatloaf sandwich at the restaurant.

So this isn't about them - it's about me.  And I give it an 8.  Pasa is a little better overall, but not much.

TH

[Brian_Gracely]

Isn't the modified Doak scale really called the Matt Ward scale now?

[Brent Hutto]

Once you get past the orange bunkers and with the conditioning problems inherent to that part of the country...ie...bermuda run ups on a run me up course....is there anything that would really blow your friends away....I don't see it.

I guess I play most of my golf in the Bermuda part of the country so I'm not sure what you're saying. One of the joys of playing at Athens CC and Cuscowilla last week was the fact that I could roll the ball or bump it into the fringe of the greens in a way that most overwatered courses I usually play seldom allow. Last winter I found Pine Needles and Mid-Pines to be equally encouraging of those shots.

Are you saying that you found the ball to check up unpredictably in the run-up areas at Athens CC and Cusowilla? Or are you saying that the ball didn't roll across the run-up areas at the pace you would like? Or are you talking about bouncing approach shots in from way short of the green (more than a few yards)?

I noticed that the grain mattered a lot whenever the ball was bouncing or rolling in the areas just off the green but I'm used to that. Perhaps when the fairways are not Bermuda you don't have that element in the equation.

[Joel_Stewart]

5.  Well above average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home just to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

6.  A very good course, definitely worth a game if your're in town, but not necessarily worth a special trip to see. It shouldn't disappoint you.

I would give it a 6.  "It shouldn't disappoint you" and there are holes and areas that do disappoint.  I seriously doubt I would go back except to see if I missed something.

[THuckaby2]

Joel - just curious - which holes and disappointed you?  And you found nothing there unique to the world of golf?  Man I'd give that descrption to a bunch of features at Cuscowilla.... and I can't think of a single disappointing aspect...

I'm sticking with 8.  But you know this stuff way better than I do.. so sell me back down.  

TH

[Michael Whitaker]

JBK - I would give Cuscowilla an 8.5 because:

1) One of the very best courses in its region?  Yes

2) Worth a special trip to see? Yes

3) Has some drawbacks, but they are made up for with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout? Yes

The extra .5 comes from:

4) You should see this course sometime in your life? Yes

Plus, Cuscowilla will always hold the memory for me of a certain ugly matchplay victory over a certain California GCA'er of note who I am willing to give a rematch any time any place!  

[THuckaby2]

Plus, Cuscowilla will always hold the memory for me of a certain ugly matchplay victory over a certain California GCA'er of note who I am willing to give a rematch any time any place!  

There are no such things as ugly wins.  
And oh yes, a rematch shall take place.  Not out of any vengeful motive mind you, but just because I know it will be damn fun.  If vengeance happens along with that, then so much the better.

 

BTW, we are quite copacetic in our views on Cuscowilla.  I like that.

TH

[Doug Sobieski]

Tom:

Just curious. Did anyone in the group notice that the best placement for your tee shot on #4 is actually in the left/highest side of the fairway. If you take the bait and try to cut off as much as possible, you are left with the ball below your feet, which tends to make people miss the green to the right, whereas if you keep it in the left half (trying not to go through the fairway), you are left with a flat lie. It's the little things like this that really knocked my socks off when I played there. I'm afraid these things are lost on the people that give it a score less than 7.3154  

Doug

[Brian_Gracely]

Like the GD / GW / GM ratings (forget which one...they all blur to me) which have that subjective "Tradition" category, JK seems to leave out an aspect of the scale for the "Fun Factor".  Cuscowilla is one hell of a fun course to play.  

I shot 89 and 79 with a hickory match in between.  Any course that can produce a wide scoring range, host a challenging and fun hickory match and keep you smiling even when you're shooting that high-end number is a winner in my book.  I'll give it a high 8.  And if we had played 18 holes of hickory with that group, I'd have given it a 10!

[Michael Whitaker]

Huck:  I've said it before and I'll say it again... I can't wait to get you on Tobacco Road!!!

[THuckaby2]

Doug:

Yes indeed we did notice that.  We also noticed that the ball kicks a LOT more right off that fairway than it looks from the tee.. so the aim must be farther left than one thinks.  Of course from the middle tees, going through becomes an issue... It's a different hole from middle and back... But still, the better play is from high up on the left, going straight down onto the green, from a much flatter lie, the fact that I royally botched this exact shot notwithstanding.

Of course you know it's subtleties like this that get the course over 7.68125.  Take this away and I can't see it getting past 7.680.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

John and Tom Huckaby were jousting on Pasatiempo.

"Huck,

Doak gives Pasatiempo a 7...

JK:

He does?  Hmmmm... sounds low to me.  Not that I doubt you, but I want to see the proof.     And what the hell, what does Doak know anyway."


I know there is almost veneration on this site for Pasatiempo, but I think that Tom has it about right.

   

[THuckaby2]

Huck:  I've said it before and I'll say it again... I can't wait to get you on Tobacco Road!!!

As can I not wait to play there.  Make it in a match against or with you and that equals perfection.  Of course there will also be other courses in the general area for me to see... dammit I am getting ideas, and I am at an all-time low in marital points right now... must resist....  

Some day we'll make that happen - count on it.  I just praise the good Lord my wife doesn't read this forum.

TH

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