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Jerry Kluger

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Surprises in 04
« on: November 05, 2004, 03:02:25 PM »
Are there any courses which you played this year which were a surprise to you as being either far better or far worse than you had expected.  I played a new course in New Jersey called Sea Oaks which I had not heard of before and really didn't expect much.  It turned out to be a pleasant surprise as I did not know much about Ray Hearn, but it had a wide variety of holes with interesting features and many strategy options; now if they could only get rid of those darn mosquitoes.

JohnV

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2004, 03:06:23 PM »
The biggest surprise to me was the newly remodeled second course at Atlanta Athletic Club.  The Riverside course is a wonderful course that exceeded all my expectations.  I was forunate to play with the superintendent who had overseen the project and worked closely with Rees Jones on it.  When he told me all the things that they had changed, including rerouting some holes on the back 9 to improve the flow I was really impressed.  They have done a wonderful job.  I haven't had the opportunity to play the Highlands course (US Open and PGA site), but quite a few people I spoke with all felt that Riverside may be better at this time.

Bill Gayne

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2004, 03:22:06 PM »
Positive surprise was Kiskiack Golf Course off I-64 west of Williamsburg, VA. It's been open about six-seven years and I finally played it for the first time and it was a lot of fun. The best hole was #18 which is a short par five. The fun is on the tee. You can either go for broke and try to drive it across the lake or bail out right for what should be an easy par.

A_Clay_Man

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2004, 03:24:34 PM »
Eastmoreland in Portland was a huge surprise. Built in 1918, not too much has changed. Certainly a textbook example of how the old boys used the land's natural movement, to create inspiring golf.

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2004, 03:31:35 PM »
How about disappointments.  I was disappointed with Emerald Dunes in WPB, Florida.  I had heard so many great things about it and they still are pretty steep in their pricing, but I found the course to be no better than average.

Andy Hughes

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 03:36:04 PM »
Jerry,
Yes!! That was actually my big disappointment for 2003.
Not sure the 'Super Dune' or whatever it was called was quite worth the price tag.
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2004, 03:44:42 PM »
Biggest surprise was Lakota Canyon since I had heard nothing nor read anything about. Just outstanding.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2004, 04:11:18 PM »
Surprises:  

Green Lakes State Park near Syracuse:  RTJ Sr., played cause I didn't want to pay $150+ for the new Turning Stone Casino courses, knew nothing about it...it was rolling, classic, and fun.

Norwich GC in East Central CT:  Played cause I thought it was Ross, have since been corrected.  Rather remote, hadn't heard much.  Not long, but an interesting classic-styled course in the shadow of Mohegan Sun.

York Golf & Tennis Club in So. Maine:  Didn't expect much from this low-profile club.  Fun, quirky Ross course with tidal inlet views, blind shots, and good shot values.

Disappointments:

Tot Hill Farm:  My first Stranz experience in March, was excited to see some interesting things.  There were quite a few strange green complexes there, namely #5, #9, #12.  Conditions were spotty, although it was Mid-March.  A few fun holes, but quite a bit of wackiness.

Great River, Milford, CT:  Was expecting a good course considering the $80 price tag, but the site is too constrained, and several holes on the back 9 are too tight, and the greens seem contrived.  Not much could be done on this long, narrow site, but I heard it was good.

Crystal Lake, Burrillville, RI:  New course opened after long permitting/financing/construction delay, expected the course to be worth the wait.  Conditions were subpar, the routing was a bit strange, and a couple of holes were too tight (#5, #6, #12, #13).  Plans were in the works for a ferry system to take players across a lake from the clubhouse to where the range was to be built.....so much for hitting a quick few balls before your tee time.

-Brad  

« Last Edit: November 05, 2004, 04:11:49 PM by Brad Tufts »
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

ian

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2004, 10:42:44 PM »
This will seem silly as a choice, but Riviera.

Like everyone else here I already knew the holes through TV, but I discovered that the coverage did not do this wonderful golf course justice. The routing is excellent, and is a lesson in getting everything you can out of a site. This was by no means a great site. The trees and fairway slopes create a shot making which is probably the most balanced of any course I have seen. The bunkering is excellent, and the green contours are magnificent. Ten may be the best "designed" hole in golf.

I have been fortunate to stand on a lot of great courses that I don't belong on, and this still remains one of the best I have seen in my travels. I think this course remains vastly underrated. Its too easy to blame small things, like the grass, Fazio, ownership, etc. rather than seeing this is still a magnificent golf course.

peter_p

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2004, 10:54:12 PM »
Kudos to Gary Browning's Copper Point in Windermere BC and Rod Whitman's Blackhawk in Edmonton.

Biggest disappointment was Silvertip in Canmore BC. The poster child of disjointedness.

T_MacWood

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2004, 10:56:56 PM »
My two biggest surprises: Maidstone and Engineers.
I expected both to be good, both were far better than I expected. Maidstone is extraordinary.

Two Emmet courses, one was a positive surprise, the other slightly disapointing: Huntington was striking, St.Georges (NY) a little disapointing.

In Westchester Fenway was a lot better than I expected, as good as any Tilly course I've seen; Century good, but not that good.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2004, 11:40:53 PM »
St George's and Eastward Ho! for their dramatic terrain.

Toronto for being brilliant and far better than I and my playing partners expected...a perfect course for the terrain. As our host described...it's Canada's NGLA!  

On the Colt search, Toronto was greatest surprise, but in the UK in general, it had to be Perranporth.  Your education in wild golf is NOT complete until playing 2,5,8,13,16 at Braid's loopy links.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2004, 11:47:26 PM »
Rod Whitman's Blackhawk -- I did have some expectations, but found it to be one of the more interesting, fun and extraordinary courses I've played in Canada in some time. Now if more golf courses were built like this one....

Robert
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Dan_Callahan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2004, 10:28:48 AM »
I was surprised to like Blackstone National (Sutton, MA) as much as I did. After all the posts on this site criticizing Rees Jones, I found his course at Blackstone to be highly strategic with a nice, natural feel to it.

Matthew MacKay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2004, 10:55:03 AM »
I had the pleasure of playing Toronto Golf Club on a quiet, misty day a couple of weeks ago and have to say it was a real eye opener.  Colt utilized every little interesting feature available to him to great effect.  I was hooked when I decided to hit driver on 12 figuring I could leave a wedge in and ended up in the basin that lines the left side of the fairway.  The subsequent blind shot from an awkward lie resulted in a tap-in 6.  The basin didn't look that threatening from the tee.?.?.?..

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2004, 11:19:11 AM »
With all of the buzz about
Friars Head (deservedly so) and Sebonic, Laurel Links has quietly been under the radar.  Aside from the extemely severe 7th green, it may be a true great course. So many great courses in the vicinity it will always be an afterthought--nevertheless, it is an inspiring course.

rgkeller

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2004, 08:00:21 PM »
Calusa Pines in Naples Florida.

Wonderful green complexes.

Super condition, firm and fast.

Good thinking is as essential as good execution. You had best know where the hole is cut before you hit your tee shot if you want a chance to hit it close.

Great facilities and caddies.

No better place in Florida to play.

Jeff_Stettner

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2004, 09:59:37 AM »
Dalhousie in Cape Giradeau, MO. Clearly the best work that I have seen from Nicklaus and Co on a very, very good piece of land.

Mike_Cirba

Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2004, 05:49:00 PM »
A big surprise in 04 was Tavistock in New Jersey.  It is an Alex Findlay design from the 20s with some wonderfully rolling land and some very wild green contours and slope.  It falls under the radar in the highly competitive Philly region but is definitely worth a visit.  The revisions being contemplated by Ron Forse and the club are also sound and well thought out.  

I'd agree with Tom MacWood about Maidstone and Fenway, although these weren't 04 courses for me.

I was also surprised to find that Fishers Island is better than the hype.  It's close to heaven.

Also, Sutton Bay is one of the most beautiful places on the planet, but I sort of knew that going in.  However, the routing utilizes the best features of the site.

However, my biggest surprise of 04 has to be Kelly Moran's Morgan Hill GC in Easton, PA..  I simply had no idea that really, really good golf could be built on such a severely sloping site.  I think most architects might have passed just based on a topo map, but I'm really glad it got built.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 05:49:24 PM by Mike_Cirba »

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2004, 06:36:38 PM »
The University of Michigan Golf Course was a surprise for me. I knew the course was good, but didn't realize it was great until I played a round there a month or so ago.

The routing and the putting surfaces (MacKenzie/Maxwell) are outstanding. I was shocked by holes 2, 4 (par 4 featuring a huge, two-tier green with some great contour), 5 (one of the neatest mid-length par 3s I've seen, with a very tiny green that falls away from the tee), 6 (short par 4 with the dramatic "horseshoe" green), 10 (long par 4, straight up a steep hill - old-time quirk - with another big, cool green), and 12 (long par 3, in the 240 yards range, with yet another great green).

I'm very surprised as well that UM Golf Course is not on Golfweek's list of America's Best Classic Courses. I think it should be.
jeffmingay.com

John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2004, 09:01:46 PM »
On the good suprise side:

-I'll second Mike C's Morgan Hill. Not only does the routing on an unbelievable difficult site, but the greens are some of the boldest I've ever seen.

-Great Bear in the Pocono's. Anyone claiming Jack can't build an excellent golf course needs to see this one. It's touted as Best in the Pocono's, but's even better than that.

-The Wolf @ Pauite resort in LV. Excellent routing, gresat green sites and some wonderfull fairway movement.

On the bad suprise side:

-Cascata. Wonderful experience, average golf at best. Possibly the flatest 18 greens I've played in one round.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2004, 09:02:14 PM by john_foley »
Integrity in the moment of choice

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2004, 09:19:41 PM »
I agree that Calusa Pines was wonderful.  Good elevation changes, a great short par four, good conditioning etc.
I also found the links in Devon and Cornwall and Wales to be better than I could have dreamed.  It just goes to show that ome of the better courses are not universally known.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2004, 09:29:39 AM »
I want to add that French Creek was a more of an eye opening to me as opposed to a surprise.  I had not played a Gil Hanse course before although I had seen some of his renovations but everyone on this site had raved about his work so I really didn't want to expect too much and be disappointed.  I didn't realize what great work Hanse does and how I wish that I lived near French Creek.  It is truly a course where every time you played it you would find something new and intersting about the course and have to use a different strategy when playing the course.  Now if I could only convince my club to use him in constructing our new course.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Surprises in 04
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2004, 06:56:04 AM »
My first surprise of the year came in January when I played Chip Powell's Venetian Golf & River Club near Sarasota, FL. As a relative novice to the nuances of golf course architecture, I was impressed with the flow of the course and the variety of holes and architectural features as described in the yardage book- MacKenzie bunkering, Biarritz green, Punchbowl green, etc. It was a fun course to play. I wrote to Ron Whitten about this course and shortly thereafter his review appeared at: www.golfdigest.com/courses/critic/index.ssf?/courses/critic/venetian.html
Whitten stated,"Venetian is a very good golf course. If it had the designer label of Cupp, Hills, Jones or, yes, even Fazio, it would probably be garnering a lot more attention." Whitten wrote to me saying that my email prompted him to play and review the course.

My second surprise was Kelly Blake Moran's Morgan Hill near Easton, PA. I guess I never expected such terrain in PA. The sheer magnitude of the course was sometimes overwhelming. Although I feel that this is a course that needs several times to learn, it's a worthy addition to public golf in PA.

The final surprise, although not unexpected, was Gil Hanse's French Creek in Chester County, PA. Having played Inniscrone a few years earlier and having played Stonewall across the road a few times, I really didn't know what to expect. I found French Creek to be a fun to play course with a variety of holes that made me look forward to the next hole.
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

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