Pebble Beach--less than perfect routing?

[Sam Sikes]

Do you think pebble could be better if there weren't 7 holes in a row with the ocean on the right.  It seems like Neville could have used the topography better to add more variety.  Once you go inland on 11 it is kind of depressing.  By the time you finally get back to the ocean holes, you are sad because you know the round is about to be over.

[paul cowley]

   i suppose that after #8 the routing could cross over and play in reverse in the corridors where the first half of #14 ,then #13,#12,#11,#10,#9 exist.....then the routing would cross back again at the second half of #14 and then finish the same [although #14 would most likely be a par four].

.....could it work and be good [or better]?.....maybe.

.....would i change it if i could ?...................no.

[A_Clay_Man]

Sam Sikes, I wouldn't characterize the retrurn to the coast as sad. Nor would I characterize the turn onto 11, and the subsequent holes, as diminished, or depressing.

In the old routing, the fifth went up the hill.

Is that the type of different routing you are talking about?

One of the subtle differences that that turn on 11 provides is the wind. If you had been fortunate to have the wind behind on 7, 8, 9 & 10, "holding-on" takes on a whole new meaning, and puckerability.

[Sam Sikes]

I played the old fifth, and the new, and I'm not saying that either is not a great hole.   I just wondered if anyone had any thoughts about the routing in general.  

Couldn't agree more about the difficulty once you turn back.  14 is the most diffiicult par 5 Ive ever played hands down(into the wind).  However, I dont necessarily think 11, 13, 15, 16 are that special, and I was thinking their corridors might have been better served on the way out (Maybe?)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sam Sikes,

Do you think pebble could be better if there weren't 7 holes in a row with the ocean on the right.  It seems like Neville could have used the topography better to add more variety.  Once you go inland on 11 it is kind of depressing.  By the time you finally get back to the ocean holes, you are sad because you know the round is about to be over.

Some deranged person has broken into your computer and is posting under your name.

What's next, complaints about TOC routing ?[/color]

[Bob_Huntley]

Patrick,

The best response I've read in a long time.

Bob

[Tom_Doak]

Sam:

You are underestimating how difficult it is to get greens and tees proximate to make the kind of "crossover" that Paul C. describes.  Yes, there are weak holes in the mix at Pebble Beach [#16 is not one of them in my opinion], but that's a function of the available land more than of how it was utilized.  I think that routing is pretty awesome.

Paul:  Your routing is "possible" but I can't imagine that it would be better.  The ninth and tenth are both beautiful holes, and both play downhill looking toward Carmel.  It's hard for me to believe that routing them uphill would have been as satisfying.

[paul cowley]

tom d .....agreed and that is why i said i woudn't change anything , even if i could .........although playing #11 in reverse down to the corner and the beach could exciting.

[Sam Sikes]

Thanks for the comments, I was thinking the same thing about 11 going down toward the ocean.  I can't comment on TOC.  However, I LOVE PEBBLE the way it is, but given the land I was speculating on how else it could be utilized

[mike_beene]

Would you think it a better routing if the house behind 10 was the clubhouse,11 was #1,etc.It would be a long way from current 18 to current 1.

[TEPaul]

I hope you all realize how much better the routing of Pebble Beach G.C. is than it almost was. Samuel Morse apparently saved the day by buying back residential lots that sat on the bay along holes 5 thru 10 and used them for golf instead! The fact that Morse didn't follow through quite as comprehensively at CPC on holes #14 and #18 apparently never ceased to disappoint Alister Mackenzie.

[A_Clay_Man]

One thing I've always felt, is the flow at Pebble. Begining on 6, and ending on 11. Then back again on 17, the golfer is transported onto a canvas that does everything to distract, using the massive scale and natural beauty of the Ocean. I can only imagine that a more psychotic flow would result, if the course was altered in the way suggested. In and out, close and away from the coast, wouldn't keep the hypnotic effect going long enough, for most to realize it. Just a thought.

[Forrest Richardson]

Pebble Beach's routing is quite interesting, and enjoyable — obviously. I had the great fortune to speak with Neville in the 1970s. He was very humble about the work he and others had done at Pebble Beach. I came away from the conversation also knowing that great time and effort was put in to routing the holes and working within the constraints of the land and the real estate expectations forced on the design team.