[Forrest Richardson]

En route to Utah a few weeks ago we passed the time by watching some old Shell's Wonderful World of Golf videos. One, COTTON vs SARAZEN on January 21, 1962 caught my attention. The graphic showed the 453-yard 17th at The Old Course as a par-5.

I thought it was an error, but then recalled something about this in research a few years back. A quick look at an older book from the late 1960s showed — also — that No. 17 was, indeed, a par-5 until at least the late 1960s.

Why is this interesting? Because some very smart people here have matter-of-factly characterized TOC as a test "with just two 5s and two 3s..."  It makes not a lot of difference, but I thought it would be interesting to get some feedback and, hopefully, some more information on this change — what drove it, who drove it, etc.

Click away...!

[ian]

It must have been a Canadian course rater who instructed the club that they would be more highly rated if they made the change.

[Forrest Richardson]

I think Canada became a country after 1972, correct?

[ian]

I seem to remember that well................

[Forrest Richardson]

That figures, the chap in the foreground has square grooves.

[ian]

Very funny come back!!!

Was the course a par 73, and if so, was that the reason that CBM made the National a par 73?

It's funny, I blindly thought that "the standard" of 72 was completely related to the Old Course being par 72.

[Forrest Richardson]

This "standard" angle is an interesting one...as I noted, many learned folks here on GCA have commented on TOC and its various quirks, standards and influences. This particular change — that of par going from 73 to 72 — deserves comment as it erodes a few perceptions that TOC has been a par-72 for many eras. Hopefully we shall get some wise posts explaining what, when and why this took place.

[Brad Klein]

I think it's because the 11th used to play as a par-4

[T_MacWood]

I thought that was common knowledge. And 13th at ANGC was originally designed as a par-4 as well.

I believe the 17th was converted to a par-4 well before 1962 however. I suspect the graphic was a producer's attempt to give two seniors a break.

I don't believe par figures at St. Andrews was an important consideration until modern times.

[BCrosby]

Whatever the scorecard says, the Road Hole has always been and will always be a maddening par 4.5 hole.

Like the other great half par hole, the 13th at ANGC.

I think they are the two best holes in golf.

Bob

PS - My recollection is that the RH was converted to a par 4 at an Open in the 30's. I'll try to look it up. I'm almost certain that for tournaments it had been converted many years before the SWWG match.

[peter_p]

The R&A still marched to colonel bogey until the mid fifties. I don't think par changed from 5 to 4 until more people could carry the corner over the coal sheds, via better equipment.
Two of the three par fives at my old course were in the 451-474 range. Was that because par fives were 450+ when they were designed and we were too lazy/resistant to change the par when the break went from 450 to 475?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Forrest Richardson,

How did the hole originally play when the golf course was played in reverse ?

[Dan King]

Coming up with some sort of "par" number during most of St. Andrews history was unheard of. Even when they started considering "bogey" it was with the concept of one shot, two shot and three shot holes. By the 20th century it was generally considered that St. Andrews had two one shotters, two three shotters, 13 two shotters and one that would change depending on who was playing or conditions. Get a couple old timers like Cotton and Sarazen in 1962 and they would probably consider it a three shotter. Get the Open contestants out there and it would probably be considered a two shotter.

I'd like to spend more time looking into it, but I doubt they had par numbers on the scorecard until tourism really took off at St. Andrews sometime around the mid-1960s.

Forrest Richardson writes:
some more information on this change -- what drove it, who drove it, etc.

I don't have anything to back it up, but my guess is American tourism. American's coming over would have wanted some sort of par number so they could compare themselves to the "so-called" expert golfer.

I think I need to go searching through some more books to see when exactly did St. Andrews have a permanent par number.

It's kind of a shame we went to a more stringent method than they had in days gone by.

Patrick_Mucci asks:
How did the hole originally play when the golf course was played in reverse ?

You'd play from the first tee to what is now the 17th green and then from around the 18th tee to what is now the 2nd and 16th green. Coming back you'd play it similarly to how it is now, but I think the hole was a little more straight away. This is one of the reason the reverse course got less play, as the links got more crowded the crossovers such as first tee to 17 green became dangerous.

What is now the first green wasn't created until around the 1870s I believe. The 17th green was then shrunk to around its current size.


Dan King

I got no pride on the hole. It's a par-5 and I play it that way. A four is a birdie.
 --Lee Trevino (on the Road Hole at the Old Course at St. Andrews)

[Forrest Richardson]

Morris and Robertson co-created the 17th green — the first new green to ever be built at St. Andrews. The new green, together with a new tee for No. 2, was largely in response to making the right- and left-handed routing work more efficiently. The description above sounds as good as any on how the 17th plays in reverse. Having not played the course in revsers I can only imagine it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dan King & Forrest,

Based on your description of reverse play, when did the current 1st green come into play ?

[Dan King]

The first green was created in 1870 by Tom Morris. I believe it was Sir Hugh Playfair  (or one of those other 19th century captains) who led the effort to create the embankments that allowed them to build the first green where it is now. Prior to then the area was often under the sea. It also allowed Tom Morris to widen the fairways.

Dan King

St. Andrews is drenched in golf. It reminds me of a Spanish town when bull-fighting is afoot. Every man, woman, and child seems to have a stake in the game. The butcher, the baker, and the candlestick-maker finish their days work to be off to the links.
  --Peter Lawless

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