Got a course? How bout a mountain too?

[Mike_Sweeney]

Let's rank em:

1. Snowbird
2. Alta
3. Jackson Hole
4. Squaw Valley
5. Stowe

* I am guessing that Telluride and Taos would make my Top 5, but I have not seen them. Only Stowe in The East deserves consideration.

[Craig Sweet]

Just a few observations and comments.

This whole idea of "exclusive" membership clubs out here in the west kind of rubs me the wrong way. The wealthy build these ski area/golf resorts and hob knob with their fellow millionaires, while the poor sap Montanan gets to clean their "cabin", serve their meals, and put their butts on the chairlift for $6.25 cents an hour. The millionaire is NOT living the Montana/Wyoming experience, they are living a Hallmark greeting card ideal of what the west is. They might just as well go to Disneyland for an unreal fantasy experience. That is what they are buying with their $2 million dollar membership. But hey, hasn't that always been the case?

Regarding the golf courses, I have heard they have a fair amount of winter damage at the Big Sky course every spring. That course is located in a meadow down the mountain from the ski area at about 6,400ft.  I have seen the winter snow mold damage at other "mountain" courses at elevations considerably lower than the Yellowstone Club and it can be very bad.  I would imagine that they have a time when the course is in pretty good shape that runs from late June/early July thru Labor Day..about 60 days. But then the members probably aren't going to be there all that much so they may never have to putt on greens with large patches of sod quilted thru out the putting surface.

As another poster pointed out, the temps. can get very cold even in June and July. The first frost, on average, I would think is sometime in mid-August and the last frost in early June.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

A couple of years ago there was an article about the Yellowstone Club in one of the ski magazines. The jist of the article was a mild condemnation of the concept of a private ski area.  the spirit of the sport is very egalitarian.  As a 30+ year Alta skier, the mountain does not care who you are---only how you handle the elements. The article wanted to dislike the mountain, but was very impressed by the qualitiy of snow and terrain.

[Mike Hendren]

Let's rank em:

1. Snowbird
2. Alta
3. Jackson Hole
4. Squaw Valley
5. Stowe

* I am guessing that Telluride and Taos would make my Top 5, but I have not seen them. Only Stowe in The East deserves consideration.

Mike,
Come on!  How can we rank them unless you identify the architect, tell us how many times he was on site during construction, quantify how much dirt was moved and note whether they were constructed before/after 1960?  

Haven't you learned anything here.

Mike
A Casual Golfer
Never Skier

[hick]

 Here's two more that were overlooked.
Okemo valley , vermont (steve Durkee)
Crested Butte , Colorado( Robert Trent Jones JR.)
I Have Heard good things about breckenridge,CO as well.

[Andy Levett]

David, I agree about too many lifts. The  big French resorts are the worst - just too efficient at getting too many people up the mountain to fight for  piste space on the way back down again.
The parallels with golf course architecture are quite interesting. I know Mike Hendren was joking about "how much dirt was moved" but it is noticeable in the Alps how the older runs/trails sit  naturally on the land whereas the newer developments, often on terrain that was rejected by the old guys, tend to have great scars carved  out of the mountain to achieve a grade skiable by the timid.
Again like golf courses, the older  places have more quirk (blind summits and drop offs, flat bits in the middle, reverse cambers etc) but also more character.

[Brad Swanson]

Let's rank em:

1. Snowbird
2. Alta
3. Jackson Hole
4. Squaw Valley
5. Stowe

* I am guessing that Telluride and Taos would make my Top 5, but I have not seen them. Only Stowe in The East deserves consideration.

Mike,
   You must subscribe to the penal school of ski resort architechture, with a little quirk (Alta) for good measure.  Its ironic that the best day of skiing during my 5 years in Denver was at Snowbird the first full day of the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City (about 18" of freshies, which is a regular occurrence, nearly below average for a storm at the Bird and Alta)  Tells you about the quality of skiing conditions in Colorado the last 5 years or so.

Cheers,
Brad Swanson

[Mike_Sweeney]

Let's rank em:

1. Snowbird
2. Alta
3. Jackson Hole
4. Squaw Valley
5. Stowe

* I am guessing that Telluride and Taos would make my Top 5, but I have not seen them. Only Stowe in The East deserves consideration.

Brad,

On further reflection, Aspen Mountain aka Ajax would be my 5th mountain. I have not skiied there since the town took on such a Hollywood personality, and Copper would probably be next. Vail and Snowmass have some great terrain, but too many people for me. But it is hard to argue with 500 inches of snow a year in Little Cottonwood Canyon.

[DMoriarty]

Other similarities perhaps . . . . here in the US the industry went through a real push to minimize quirk and regulate skiing-- signs everywhere, lots of fences, no jumping and no jumps, no tucking, cutting down every tree that might be hit, etc.   Most of this was done for liability reasons and to make skiing family friendly, but the result was skiing was less quirky and less fun.  But now with skier responsibility legisliation limiting liability in most ski states, things have loosened up quite a bit.  For instance, Jackson Hole now has 2500 acres of backcountry skiiing where you are pretty much on their own, and terrain parks exist almost everywhere.  More to the point, many areas are trying to make the trails seem as natural as possible . . . for example, glade skiing has become all the rage.  
___________________________________

As for ski areas, if you go for the snow, then nothing beats Grand Targhee, WY. (That is tough for a Montanan to admit.)

[Lance Rieber]

1. Sun Valley
2. Big Sky
3. Bridger Bowl
4. Big Mountain
All great ski areas if you get the chance.
My mom's family live in Bozeman and Belgrade and the talk is that another course is planned for the Big Sky area to be designed by Nicklaus and to be the first "forest course" to quote some pros in town.  And Targhee gets absolutely dumped on in the winter, great snow.  
Craig, are you in the area and if so have you heard any talk about this new course?

[rgkeller]

Big deal! I think the story is far more interesting about Kim Bassinger buying that entire town in Georgia. When the press asked her why in the world she bought a whole town in Georgia she told them because that's where she first got laid!

Well, if you mean Kim BASINGER, then she was mistaken.

I remember that evening and it was not in Georgia.

[Craig Sweet]

Lance, I'm not in the Bozeman area and I haven't heard anything about Nicklaus doing a course near Big Sky. I wonder what a "forest course" is??  The Palmer course at Big Sky is in a meadow a few miles down the mountain from the ski area. Maybe the Nicklaus course will not be in a "meadow" and thus the term is used so as not to confuse the locals!

Yeah, Targhee gets more snow than any ski area in Montana, and Wyoming for that matter. I guess Targhee claims they are in Wyoming even though I could swear they are in Idaho.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Actually, Grand Targhee is in Wyoming.  To access the resort, you need to hang a right when you hit Alta, Wyoming to re-enter the State of Wyoming, and the back side of the Tetons.  Unlike Teton Village, you can actually see the big boys when you are in the 4th of July bowl

FWIW - My top 5 continental U.S. Ski Areas:

#1 - Alta - better, drier snow than Snowbird due to the higher elevation, and more powder due to its No Snowboarding Policy.  Probably equal to NGLA in skiing importance.

#2 - Jackson Hole - 4,189 of vertical drop and plenty of off the charts terrain.  Winged Foot West from the tips.

#3 - Snowbird - Tougher than Alta.  Oakmont?

#4 - Taos - Texans used to show up and roll down the window of their limo only to put it right back up and depart without ever leaving the car.  Al's Run can do that to you.  Plenty of Steep and Deep.  Shinnecock Hills on a windy day?

#5 - Squaw Valley - So much terrain, so many people in the lift lines.  Pebble Beach on Lake Tahoe.  We used to attempt the "California Double" which is skiing KT22 top to bottom with no stops on Sat., and drive all night to Pebble and try to break 80 from the tips on Sun.  5 for 7 attempts.

Honorable Mentions:

Mad River Glen - Pine Valley with its unkempt trails and unforgiving hazards - "Ski it if you can" is one apt phrase.

Arapahoe Basin - Bethpage Black.  The best tailgating in all of sports with its "Grateful Dead" meets the Colorado Rockies attitude, dude.  Palavachini from 12,610' back to the kegs is a run for the ages.

Aspen Highlands - Friar's Head in the land of NGLA, Maidstone, and SH.  A challenge awaits those inclined to move away from the better known Ajax & Snowmass.

Stowe - Merion.  The front four including National and Goat are counterparts to the quarry holes.

Kirkwood - Winged Foot East.  Difficult and overshadowed by its neighbors.  Definitely worth the play.

Other parallels:

Deer Valley - Augusta National.  Impeccably Groomed with trouble if you go off the beaten path.

Homewood - CPC.  A bit of a reach here, but both are jaw-dropping beauties, are never crowded, surrounded by other places of great reputation.

Killington - Cog Hill.  Many places to play and major events are contested here.

Park City - TPC Stadium.  Amusement parks with nightlife to boot.

Grand Targhee - Sand Hills.  Rugged, wild and beautiful.  Off the beaten paths.

JWK

   

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