Jim F:
How much of your evaluation of Shadow Creek is about the "experience" (I define that as the exclusive nature of the club and how it came into being along with the out-of-the-world servicing that comes with being there) versus the nature and quality of the holes?
My point Jim is that other TF design courses -- some of which you mentioned -- are simply better overall golf courses. They are not tied to the genesis of Shadow Creek which really is more of an engineering / landscaping enterprise than fundamentally superb golf holes.
Jim -- Shadow Creek certainly should get plaudits for how it came into being -- but the fore element is not the discussion on the how and why it got built but what ultimately was PRODUCED.
Frankly, I see a few other TF designs that are clear cuts above SC --
Dallas National
Karsten Creek
Black Diamond / Quarry
Glen Wild
Galloway National
Each of the aformentioned do not have a grandiose story on how they were built but the totality of what is there with each is truly the best of the likes I have seen TF produce.
I would also mention a few others of note like Victoria National, Pinehurst #8 and Forest Creek that are also well done layouts and worthy of visits by raters. With some additional time to think about it I can likely name a few other TF courses worthy of serious attention.
George P said,
"... Shadow Creek represents an significant milestone in the history of golf course architecture."
George -- help me out with something -- please define golf course architecture for me because Shadow Creek doesn't have the kind of unique or edge-of-your-seat holes that stay in one's memory for more than few hours at best.
What milestone are we talking about? I don't doubt plunking down $35+ million for a layout in the middle of nowhere takes balls but what aspects of the design are going beyond the formulistic stuff that unfortunately lies at the heart of much of what TF has done -- certainly among the 50-55 I have personally played -- including two rounds at Shadow Creek.
Hell, I'd much rather play something in a more panoramic setting and with some unique and funky holes like Wolf Creek at Paradise Canyon in Mesquite.
George -- it would help me understand your bold statement in knowing what other TF courses of distinction you have played and how you would assess them versus Shadow Creek. As I asked Jim F -- where would you place SC among all the courses you have played in the States?
Shadow Creek is a milestone in man's audacity to impose his will on Mother Nature. I don't doubt that the course is well done in spots architecturally but it's major leap off the cliff to include the course among the top 25-50 courses in the USA. Frankly, I would have to really find a reason to include it among my personal top 100 in the States.
Tommy N:
Shady Canyon is on my list to play in a future visit to SoCal. Do yourself a favor and try to play a few of the other top TF courses I and others have named. You may find that the anti-Christ is not the ultimate demon you think him to be. I have faith that maybe you might see it from a different fixed perspective. Even Nixon changed his mind on the USSR and China!
![Grin ;D](http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/Smileys/classic/grin.gif)