agreed. i played both philmont courses during a practice session for the Philadelphia amateur last year. The North (flynn) is a masterwork. This course is extremely difficult when prepped right. The greens have severe slopes and the course has a lot of elevation changes. All in all a very demanding course and a great venue for competitions. The South has some nice elevation but it is the non-competitive venue of the two, more of the eveyday members will play that course...wille park has some nice courses that he designed though...