Public Golf in Colorado

[Matt_Ward]

From my many travels throughout the USA I have to say that the State of Colorado is blessed with some of the finest public golf options you can imagine.

I've been to the state numerous times and have to say the following areas rate quite high ...

*topography
*costs to play
*variety of offerings
*progression of latest new designs

The State of Colorado is indeed a place for any non-affiliated player to visit and sample all that is open to the public.

No doubt places like Florida may have more public courses but the terrain (lack thereof) and the cost to play will leave you scratching your head.

California has the topography and range of courses no doubt but the cost factor requires a credit card in most locations.

Michigan has a wealth of courses and some unique topography but much of the public design is simply vanilla type stuff save for a few exceptions.

Arizona has plenty of golf but much of the really good stuff is private and tied to the gated community.

South Carolina is home to the Grand Strand but frankly it's the grand bore as much of the golf there is simply fast food design variety.

New York has some excellent public courses but it's really only a few at the very top like Bethpage Black, Saratoga National and Turning Stone Resort, to name just three. My home State of New Jersey is also behind Colorado -- we have a few layouts of note but no where near the depth and we certainly charge more. New Mexico also has a few exceptional layouts at the top (Black Mesa, Paa-Ko Ridge, Twin Warriors, Pinon Hills, UNM) but again depth is the issue.

In Nevada the issue is one of costs. Try playing anything near Vegas and you'll need a serious loan for a good many -- Cascata, Shadow Creek, Rio Seco, etc, etc.

In Illinois and Ohio it comes down to depth of public options versus the quality private courses that are there. In addition, you also have the issue of topography.

I'll take a clear stand that Colorado is certainly rich in public course diversity. Hats off to many of the newer designs like Lakota Canyon, Devil's Thumb and Bear Dance, to name just a few. You also have the mountain options in the Vail / Aspen area and clearly there's so much in and around the Denver area. Communities like Aurora are also rich in what they provide residents -- Murphy's Creek and Saddle Rock, to name just two. You also have the profusion of golf in and around the Castle Pines area.

When you add up the options available, the new ones coming forward and the relative cheapness of the costs to play I'll take Colorado as the public course destination that offers plenty but won't break your wallet in experiencing it.

Be curious to see how others feel ...

[Doug Wright]

Matt,

I'll chime in with a couple of thoughts.

First, to preempt the ineveitable BillV/Redanman comment, we are at 5,000 feet altitude and higher, so there's a question according to some whether we really play "golf" here...

Second, we are blessed with an abundant quantity and quite good quality of courses in the Denver metro area (Riverdale Dunes, Murphy Creek, Fossil Trace, Buffalo Run, The Ridge at Castle Pines North, Bear Dance to name a few), and in other areas such as Pueblo (Walking Stick), Colorado Springs (Antler Creek), Fort Collins (Art Schaupeter's new Windsor Highlands along with a couple others) and  out west in Grand Junction (Devil's Thumb and Redlands Mesa).

One of the good things about the development of golf in this region has been the active participation by and partnership between the municipalities surrounding Denver and private developers, which have put public courses in with large housing developments that have been carefully thought out, don't have intrusive housing (for the most part) and have hired quality architects to do the courses. Many of those mentioned above fall in this category. The fact that a number of different architects have worked here (Foster, Kavanaugh, Pete Dye, Nicklaus, Weiskopf, Morrish as well as local products Engh and Rick Phelps) has contributed to the variety and the quality.

Third, it is generally a decent value proposition here as well, with $30-$40 being the price point for most of the new courses. Some like Vista Ridge and The Ridge at Castle Pines unfortunately are CCFADs run by Troon Golf running to $100 a pop, but they're the exception to the rule. The lackluster economy and the influx of new supply has kept price inflation to a minimum over the past few years. I haven't seen much discounting, though, and courses like Bear Dance and Fossil Trace always seem busy.

Fourth, I don't think the public mountain golf in Colorado is at a par with what is on the flatlands and foothills of Colorado. Most of the quality new mountain golf is private (Red Sky Ranch, a couple courses in Aspen) not public.  

So yes Matt we are quite fortunate to have what we have here. So much so that there are a number of courses here that I have yet to see, or have only seen once. I need your job!

[Matt_Ward]

Doug:

The thing to keep in mind is that designers have begun to factor in the high altitude situation and even though the ball will fly further you still have to handle the myriad of strategic implications many of the holes do provide.

I have been fortunate to have criss-crossed the state a bunch of times and the range / diversity of courses is quite good. Ditto the reasonable fees encountered for nearly 95+% of the courses.

Like I said when you add topography, price, availability and diversity of design you get a state that competes at the highest of levels from what I have played. I don't doubt certain states have better top tier (the 4 to 5 best) public courses but you can be sure green fees are almost always triple digit and beyond.

Doug -- one other thing -- it's my understanding that Red Sky Ranch is available to public play but on a rotation with its sister Tom Fazio design.

[Brad Swanson]

Matt and Doug,
   Ditto what you both said, and I'd like to add that the weather is typically pretty nice throughout most of the year as well (which doesn't distinguish between public and private golf, but is another plus in that the season is quite long, nearly year round).

Cheers,
Brad  

[JohnV]

I haven't seen what Colorado has to offer, but I think that Oregon is a pretty good contender for good public golf in all types of topography.  From the coast with Bandon and others to Portland's Pumpkin Ridge, the Reserve, munis (Eastmoreland, Heron Lakes), down the Willamette Valley for Tukwilla and Tokatee, to the desert courses around Bend/Redmond and finally to the south with Eagle Point and a few others there is a great mix of public courses.  The munis and some others such as Tukwilla are not overly expensive and the rest while pricey are nothing like the California courses.

[cary lichtenstein]

I have to agree with Matt's comments as my wife and I spent over 3 weeks in Colorado this summer. We looked forward to each new day, and found the variety, topography, scenery to be outstanding.

Colorado allows you to pack up your car and enjoy a beautiful state.

I do not know of any other state that has as much to offer in the way of public golf, certainly Long Island's privates are outstanding as well.

[Doug Wright]

Matt, I thought you had to be staying at a Vail resort property to access Red Sky, making it a "resort" course not a public course IMO, but I could be wrong.

JohnV, I agree Oregon is pretty strong public golf-wise. There's nothing approaching the Bandon courses in these parts, with or without "the ocean effect," but the depth of field in Colorado is quite good.

[CHC1948]

I've only played in Colorado once...I can't say much about it, however, NC is excellent for public golf....

West:  Linville GC (Ross), Boone CC(Ellis Maples)....I've heard Beech and Sugar Mtn. have good courses as well, Asheville has some great public golf...plus the mtns. are a great place to beat the heat in July and August!  My mom played Mtn. Aire last weekend and loved it...I'm not sure is that is good or not!

Piedmont:  Charlotte's public golf is plentiful, but nothing to brag about, many fair courses with great rates!  Raleigh has the same sort of set-up as Charlotte but not as many options.  Ashboro (ross) is a great course and very reasonable...Mike Stranz aslo has several good courses is this area.  Also...I've heard good things about Grandover (outside of Greensboro).

Eastern & Coast:  Pinehurst....enough said!  Wilmington Muni has to be one of the top-ten best deals in the country...golf course is excellent and cost is non-existent!  The coast has many golf courses for all different levels....some are not anything to brag about, however, most courses on the coast are better than average.  Note:The Outer Banks- is some of the best golf terrain in the world, only one problem, there isn't a course on it.  I realize the economic reasons behind it, but somebody missed the boat, several years back!

Overall NC has many things going for it:  cost, amount of courses in each region, (1)mtn. golf (2)parkland golf (3)sandhills and coastal golf....all in one state.  

[Matt_Ward]

CHC1948:

Let's not forget the "surcharges" (aka King's ransome) you need to pay in order to play Pinehurst #2 !!! I'm a big fan of #2 but it takes a deep pocket to play it.

The purpose of my thread was to highlight states in which the cost to play was of no less concern in tandem with topography, design quality and access.

FYI -- I believe Mountain Air (Burnsville) is a private / gated community ... access there is for members / guests -- not the general public.

Much of the golf that is near Brunswick County (just north of the SC border with the Grand Strand) is simply more of the same fast food design you see in the Palmetto State.


John VB:
 
Your point with Oregon is well taken. Clearly, you have the likes of Pac and Bandon Dunes. The golf around the Portland area is decent and the development in the Bend area is becoming more and more of a force.

Gentlemen:

As a sleeper candidate I would also suggest that Minnesota and Indiana are also quite good. Personally, I still believe Colorado has the edge still.

[Tripp_Davis]

Relative to Colorado public golf, there are also good public courses in the mountains.  We did a course in Granby called Grand Elk.  I was curious if any have played it.

Tripp Davis

[Matthew Schulte]

Doug:

You are indeed correct about Red Sky.  It is owned by Vail Resorts.  Access is only granted to those staying in one of their resorts in the area.  Matt is also correct in that the two courses alternate each day between "resort access" and member only play.

[CHC1948]

Matt,

there is a lot of good/great golf in the pinehurst area that doesn't cost an arm and a leg...plus, watching for specials is always key...I've never paid full price before for #2,4 or 8.  

My mom is not a member and she didn't play with a member at Mtn. Air, in fact, she told me that her and her husband played 18 for under $30.  If it is private.....I think you would have to consider it semi.  

I agree with the "fast food" golf at the coast, however, in recent years the wilmington area has some pretty good public golf that sprung up along US17....

CHC

[Matt_Ward]

CHC1948:

If you paid a cheaper price for any Pinehurst course -- especially #2 -- then more power to you. For Joe Sixpack and Mary Wineglass the cost to play the renowned Ross layout there nearly requires a second mortgage.

Thanks for mentioning about Mountain Air -- I always liked the Scott Pool design -- it is witout question one of the most unique sites for golf in the eastern half of the USA.

I'll still take Colorado over NC on the public side of the equatoin. Greater varety of courses -- more interesting terrain -- and the costs toi play -- minus the mountain resorts like Cordillera and a few others -- are very reasonable.
One other factor in favor of Colorado -- taxpayer owned courses in Colorado are further along in terms of their design qualities than the counterparts you find in the Tar Hell State. The exceptions would be Wilmington and Oak Hollow in High Point, to name the two one of note I have played.

[Doug Wright]

I agree with the "fast food" golf at the coast, however, in recent years the wilmington area has some pretty good public golf that sprung up along US17....

CHC, Just curious what courses along US17 you're referring to (my parents live in that area so I'm always looking for something decent to play). Wilmington Municipal clearly is one of the finest "value" venues in the US of A.