The idea of the 1st as the 19th

[CHrisB]

I have seen a couple of courses this year (Royal Liverpool and especially Pine Valley) whose first holes seem to have been specifcally designed to be decisive 19th holes, serving as "tiebreaker holes" where matches tied after 18 holes are likely to be decided. They are very difficult starting holes, where big numbers can be racked up, but because of the disparrity of scores that can occur, they stand a very good chance of deciding matches (I'd be interested to know what percentage of "extra hole" matches at PVGC make it past the 19th).

What are some other examples of this "1st as the 19th" philosophy?

Does anyone still design ultra-tough 1st holes whith this philosophy in mind? Or is the stroke play mentality so strong now that most first holes are being built a little easier to help players "ease into the round" (an idea that Donald Ross strongly believed in)?

[George Pazin]

Oakmont's 1st has been labelled by some as the toughest opening hole in golf. I don't know if Fownes was thinking of it as a potential 19th, or simply wanted a fitting introduction to his masterpiece.

[Bob_Huntley]

It probably will never figure in any professional or big amateur event, but I would rate the first hole at Princeville as one of the toughest starters....anywhere.

[DPL11]

Chris,

Pine Valley's 1st doesn't look tough on paper, but it is very strategic. I had never thought of it in the context of a tie breaker, but it just may be a perfect hole for deciding a match. Length is no advantage but pin-point placement is manditory. The approach leaves many options with it's "at grade" green site and steep fall off's left, right, and deep.

I agree that most courses follow the Ross philosphy of an easy starter.


Doug

[CHrisB]

Another concept I've seen is an actual 19th hole that is used to settle matches or bets. Stone Canyon in Tucson and Cimarron Hills north of Austin both have 19th holes that are ~100 yards or less to very small greens. Fun concept, but I think I'd still like to see more difficult 1st holes in that "1st as the 19th" mold. Does anyone build them anymore?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Wentworth West Course 1st is a tough proposition, a 473 yard par 5 for you and me, but a 473 yard par 4 for the pros playing in the World Matchplay in a couple of weeks' time.  The green is domed and on the far side of a valley.  I can remember when almost all the pros took wood or a really long iron for their second shot.  I don't suppose it's a wedge even today - a good number of them fail to make the putting surface.

[David_Tepper]

Chris Brauner -

Do you have any specific knowledge that the courses you mention with difficult 1st holes were consciously designed that way to serve as 19th-hole tiebreak function? I could certainly be wrong, but my guess is that a difficult 1st hole is a coincidence rather than a specific design feature of the course.  It would be interesting to know if any GCAs discussed the "1st as 19th" concept in their writings or interviews.

DT      

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The great days of matchplay were in the 19th century when courses just happened - they weren't designed.  I suppose the early 20th Century architects had matchplay in mind when designing their courses but I doubt if the 1st/19th dual function concerned them much as few matches ever go beyond 18 and as most golf was social there was probably a contingency in the etiquette of drinks buying to cope with tied matches.

[CHrisB]

David,
When I was at PVGC last week, some of the members were speaking of the 1st hole, and how the hole was designed to be a 19th hole "tie-breaker". I have a book about the history of the club that I bought while there, and in the hole description of the 1st, it states that George Crump was "bent on providing drama and danger on a hole where the round would commence and, in a sudden-death playoff, would possibly end". Then we started talking about Royal Liverpool and how the 1st there has a similar effect (that one may be more of a coincidence, though, but who knows? The "1st as the 19th" argument might have been made to justify the hole and its internal OB when the practice area was created).

I like the idea and agree that it would be interesting to know if any GCAs bought into the idea and/or wrote about it. If it turns out that it was largely Crump's idea alone with specific respect to Pine Valley, than that would be equally interesting.

[David_Tepper]

Chris-

Thanks for that information. It is surprising, but the facts speak for themselves.

DT

[Patrick_Mucci]

I agree that most courses follow the Ross philosphy of an easy starter.

Belmont, Wannamoissett, Plainfield, Mountain Ridge, Essex Fells  and Aronomink.   [/color]

[Paul_Turner]

Last time I checked, the 1st holes at Hoylake and Pine Valley were exactly the same length.  They also turn left at almost the exact same point.  The PV hole is far more attractive and probably better (best opener in the world?) but perhaps the Hoylake hole is scarier and its open links nature creates some fine angled shots with varying pucker factors.

Crump reportedly wanted a "copy" of Hoylake's 1st.

I bet Tiger goes OB when the Open returns.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Paul Turner,

I hate it when a caddy reads a putt and says it goes to the left, but that's from his perspective from behind the hole.

The 1st at Pine Valley goes to the right, from the tee, but, to the left if you're looking back from the green.  

Were you reading Ran's putts for him at Hidden Creek ?
If so, how much do I owe you ?

[Paul_Turner]

oops