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Ran Morrissett

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The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« on: September 26, 2004, 12:50:59 PM »
...by Richard Mandell is posted Under In My Opinion.

Who among us has sketched 'ideal' golf holes?  My brothers and I drew dream holes back in the late 1970s based out of the World Atlas of Golf book  - wasted lives to be sure! Surely it is fair to assume that many golf course architecture careers have been started by such notions of grandeur and in the hopes of traveling to some of the world's exotic locations and building just such dream holes?

Unfortunately, the reality check is that 90% plus of those in the golf architecture profession never get to work on anything close to a dream project (i.e. great site coupled with a great owner behind a well funded project). In order to put dinner on the table, how often must a golf course architect cluck around like a chicken in the dirt groveling for something (my wife assures me there is a better way to phrase that but you get the point) that is doomed to end up mediocre best case because of a non-descript site, poor soil, lack of funds, an owner who doesn't place the golf first, housing concerns, etc. ? I don't even want to know -  the thought of being a golf architect is very daunting/sobering, if you ask me.

The above is a personal commentary but it is re-enforced by Rich Mandell's latest contribution to this site. Initially approached by an owner who was expressly not interested in wasting money for an add-nothing big name architect, Rich thought he had a real chance to win this project. He cared so much because this inland property was full of amazing natural land forms, a true one of a kind property. After numerous visits, Rich devised a routing whereby the string of holes maximized many of the terrain's best attributes: in short, a home run! This course would be Rich's big break that would in part allow him to demonstrate his design talents.  

And then, it all fell apart and the owner went with a name designer. The reason offered was one of permitting expertise and that the two designs were actually similar. When showed the other routing, Rich was shocked to see that there was in fact little in common. As this name architect is famous for, the routing is forced and contrived and much of the landscape is going to suffer for it. What could have been a great course is almost assuredly doomed for mediocrity.

In the Best Course that No One Will Ever Play, Rich shares with us a design/set of holes that alas we will never get to experience. See what you think but it does seem the game is all the poorer for it. However, hopefully Rich and other such architects continue to fight the good fight in hopes that one day their time too will come.

Cheers,

PS another big thanks to Tommy N. for all his help with the graphics included in this article.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2004, 01:13:04 PM »
Ran, surely just about every archie that we know has similar stories and a cabinet full of conceptual routings of courses that they lost the bid or job.  I can imagine that we can't be told much more by Rich Mandell about who he lost the job to, and see that routing.  

There are the obvious reasons of marketing and so forth as the reasons that "perhaps" a better design concept won't be built, loosing to a lesser effort of a bigger name, etc.

There are other reasons as well that there are dream courses, or the ultimate in design potential, that we will never play because they didn't get built.

I can believe that every archie has such plans either partially done, or in their head.  Even us dreamers and fanatics who participate here have those plans that will never get built.

I say without reservation that I have such a course in multiple routing schemes laid out on a real piece of the best ground I have ever seen just south of North Platte, NE.  I have no doubt it would equal or surpass Wild Horse in any of the routing configurations I have envisioned, including the clubhouse and associated facilities.  But, that don't get it done.  The biggest factor is locational market and economic viability.  Had I been first to that area in say 1990, again with no humility, you all would be gushing about that course rather than Wild Horse.   But, it ain't going to happen, no more than Rich Mandell's project ain't going to happen.  Reality bites... :-\ >:( ::)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

A_Clay_Man

Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2004, 01:51:54 PM »
That was a great read, Thanx Richard.

Not mentioning the project, or players involved, shows great restraint. Part of me feels you were mis-led, and if it were done so flagrently, exposing the individuals would, and could, be helpful to someone else in the future.


 What's the lesson to be learned here? Don't work without a commitment? I wonder how the numbers really would've broken down. Your course sounds like it is all already there.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2004, 02:35:07 PM »
Richard,
Good read and quite the layout.
What was your proposed construction budget, as compared to the selected one?
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2004, 03:41:28 PM »
Thanks for sharing this - yet another reason this is the best golf site on the web.

Love the central hazards and the diagonal tee shots. Too bad we can't see the routing of the other guy, it'd make for an interesting comparison.

Being a golf course architect must be one of the most odd combinations of frustration coupled with a wonderful sense of fulfillment - not sure if I could stomach it. My hat is off to you.

Best of luck in the future. (Maybe the developer will go belly up before construction....)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

TEPaul

Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2004, 07:35:27 PM »
Ran:

I think 'cluck around like a chicken in the dirt' is perhaps the most apropos description imaginable!!

johnk

Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2004, 02:27:50 PM »
I couldn't find it on the right hand side list when I clicked on "in my opinion", however, I did read it by using "site search" and typing Richard Mandell in...

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/opinionmandell.html

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2004, 06:26:40 PM »
...as disapointing as it always is ,[and the misses seem at times to outnumber the 'others'] ,i still feel the design exercise alone has its benefits ,regardless if you get to build the course or not......very few in this business would be where they are today ,if they ,[like ran and his brothers] didn't design countless holes and routings with little hope of their construction....its really one of the main theaters of learning the trade ,the other being work experience in the field.

...it still hurts ,as richard suggests ,because you become excited about a vision of what might be ,only to feel the frustration of knowing you never will.

  for most this is not an easy business and its best to check your feelings and ego at the door.........all the while knowing you are gonna kick butt on the next one !!!!..........eh richard ?!  ;D
« Last Edit: September 27, 2004, 09:02:17 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2004, 06:46:13 AM »
Richard,

Thank you for sharing this - You have a number of people on this site who understand exactly what that feels like.

We must all believe ""that project"" will happen otherwise we might as well pack up the scale ruler and Rotrings and start another career..

Taking the positve - just look how close you really were to putting on the construction boots - a lot closer than many will ever get..
@EDI__ADI

Steve Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2004, 11:34:34 AM »
A link is posted on golfobserver.com today.
Steve Pozaric

Kelly Blake Moran

Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2004, 12:18:04 PM »
Based upon comparing holes with each other on the overall layout there seem to be two holes where practically no one could reach the fairway, and some pencil thin fairways that the average player would have no hope of lacing their shot into them and staying put on their second shot.  Maybe a little more earthmoving, and some nice big wide fairways and the choice of architects would have been different.  As interesting as some holes appear there seem to be some very serious flaws with other holes.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2004, 01:17:37 PM »
KBM definitely calls 'em as he sees 'em.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 02:04:15 PM by John Cullum »
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2004, 01:25:25 PM »
John,

Are you referring to Richard, or Kelly?

Having just spent some time with Richard, this prompted me to look at his website, which in turn led me to the website for his Creekside Course, near Atlanta, which I believe was a feature course at the Golf Inc Show last week.

This is OT, but that site has one of the most inane comments ever on a hole - it describes the par 3 8th as "a hole that seems to play as it looks."  I think I understand their point, but......
« Last Edit: September 28, 2004, 01:40:46 PM by Jeff_Brauer »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2004, 02:03:43 PM »
Edted as above
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Richard_Mandell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2004, 01:36:46 PM »
I am glad people have enjoyed my routing, but I don't want anyone to get off on the "sour grapes" tangent as that was not my intention.  I just enjoyed the property and the routing so much that Ran suggested I share.

I doubted from day one that these people would not hire a name, but went with it anyway.  They recommended that I do a routing and I knew going in that was my risk, but I have to take that risk sometimes considering the site and the project location.

Kelly,  I would love to hear from you what holes you see as having flaws.  I would love to discuss wht holes have impossible carries.  Please share.  regarding your post, please know that (1) the routing is conceptual in nature;  (2) each primary fairway (as drawn) is a minimum of 40 to 50 yards wide and some alternative landing areas are no narrower than thirty yards wide.  The reason these alternative landing arewas are narrow is to give the risk some value; and (3) the Clients would have no clue to pick one architect over the other because a fairway looked too narrow at such a scale.  

The Clients felt both routings were similar (though they were not) and had no bearing on choosing the Architect.  That is my whole point for the exercise.  If a Client truly looked at Architecture to chooe an Architect, many choices in the world would have been different and there may be many more great golf courses to play.

Thanks.

Mark Brown

Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2004, 03:13:40 AM »
Amen, thanks for sharing your disapointment. It is happening more and more, particularly in the last 3 years when course openings have dropped from 350-400 (from 1988 thru 2000) to about 175 per year.

Jack, Arnie, Fazio, Jones have as many projects than ever and its the "2nd tier" architects who really understand the game and the nuances of strategic design who are scrambling to keep going. We are missing a lot of great courses that will never be built.

On Golfweeks Best 100 Residential Course Rankings nearly half are designed by Fazio (almost 30) and Nicklaus (almost 20)
Incredible isn't it. Doak is the exception because he was fortunate to get his big break at Pacific Dunes -- although he doesn't have any top 100 residential courses either, and it's real estate that's driving about half of all projects now.

I've learned two things about business: you either have to have money to make money, or start your own business on a shoe string and stay with it until it grows into a decent income. The real payoff is doing something you have a passion for.

Paul_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Best Course No One Will Ever Play...
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2004, 03:54:06 AM »
You think this is tough: try writing and publishing it!
In the end, you just do it because you love doing what you're doing.

Mark Brown and his comments are "on the money."