[Michael_Stachowicz]

How does a step cut around fairways and greens fit into classic architecture?  I know they didn't have these cuts back in the day, but would the classic architects have used it if they had it?  Or is the need for intermediate rough facilitated by the fertilized, watered, lush rough we now have?

The thing I like about the step cut is that it may allow me to shave the entrances to bunkers and green slopes a little bit to get the ball to bounce.

[Steve Curry]

Mike,

I have since ditched intermediate and made it all fairway.  Since starting here at BHCC I have probably added 8-10 acres of fairway and have brought many bunkers and the swale on 8 and 15 much more into play.  I think the intermediate is like a pacifier, no real purpose other than to make you feel more comfortable and look stupid.

Steve

[Steve Curry]

Mike,

I was thinking, in rereading this post and wondering where all the other comments were, that I would prefer to see an intermediate if it were there to bring the hazards more into play.  It seems though that the typical impetus is to accommodate the continuous narrowing of fairways and the idiots who think the ball should stop before the rough despite the slope of the fairway and their ineptitude to recognize it and adjust.

Steve

[Dan Herrmann]

Check out:
All Things Considered – A USGA Staff Opinion
A Waste of Time and Resources: For most golf facilities, an intermediate rough offers little to no benefit.

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/article/oatis-waste-7-26-13.pdf

I agree 100%.  I can't think of any good reasons for intermediate rough.

[JMEvensky]

Check out:
All Things Considered – A USGA Staff Opinion
A Waste of Time and Resources: For most golf facilities, an intermediate rough offers little to no benefit.

http://gsr.lib.msu.edu/article/oatis-waste-7-26-13.pdf

I agree 100%.  I can't think of any good reasons for intermediate rough.

The week this article came out,the Green Chairman at my place decided the golf course needed intermediate rough.He thought it needed "toughening up". This is a guy who can't break 80 with a pencil and 2 erasers.

You can't make this stuff up.

I agree--intermediate rough is a waste of everyone's time and money.

[Anthony_Nysse]

We removed ours last year. We only have a walk path from tee to fwy now. Much more definition from fwy/collar to rough.

[Jon Wiggett]

We removed ours last year. We only have a walk path from tee to fwy now. Much more definition from fwy/collar to rough.

Is intermediate rough what we call semi-rough in the UK?

Jon

[Neil White]

Jon,

I have often wondered the same thing  

My - possibly wrong - assumption is that intermediate rough was an additional cut between semi rough and rough?

I stand to be corrected however.

[Thomas Dai]

Say the fairways are cut twice a week and that the rough is also cut twice per week. As it's cut twice per week anyway, why not cut the rough to fairway height, terrain permitting? Would that cause any more work/expense? This approach could fit in with the alternate routes, options, interest and solutions under discussion on another thread at the moment. Just asking. Different countries/climates being different though.
ATB

[Sean_A]

I presume intermediate rough is the first cut between fairway and primary rough, but longer than collars  .  I never understood the point of an extra cut, why not just have it fairway?  It could be that bunkers have been pushed to the wings and the intermediate rough is a compromise leaving some chance for kick and roll into sand.  I spose to keep a uniform look all the fairways use it regardless of hazards?  This if course brings me back to an age old question which I don't think (could be wrong) has ever been properly addressed, why do so many non-links have rough between fairway and sand?

Ciao

[PCCraig]

At my home course they had some winter kill in the intermediate rough last spring, so they decided to grow up the intermediate rough to match the rest of our rough. I would agree that it adds more definition to the fairway, but at the same time it effectively narrowed the playing corridor. Our course also has a number of fairway undulations which can lend to balls rolling down a slope and resting against the collar. Hitting a shot when the ball from the fairway while it is resting directly up against the rough is difficult and I would say slightly unfair. For that reason their had been talk about restoring the "first cut" next year. We'll see.

I know WBYC north of town took their intermediate rough out a couple of years ago to save on maintenance costs. So it seems like a more common practice among classic golf courses.

[Tyler Kearns]

Dan,

Thanks for that link, very timely.  We have debated putting an intermediate cut at our course, however, the additional cost simply didn't make sense.  One of our members thought it would add definition to the fairways, however our rough is only 2.25", and an intermediate cut would have blurred the transition from fairway to rough, and hurt overall definition.

TK

[Tim Gavrich]

I wonder what the relation between the rise of intermediate rough and the development of the "Second Cut" at ANGC is.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

We removed ours last year. We only have a walk path from tee to fwy now. Much more definition from fwy/collar to rough.

Is intermediate rough what we call semi-rough in the UK?

Jon

yes!

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Intermediate Rough or Step cuts and I call them started to show up at higher budget courses in the late 70's early 80's as a result of lower fairway mowing.  When fairways started to be cut at 5/8" and lower there was to big a transition to the rough next door.  A golf ball near the edge of the rough was almost un hittable as the rough would almost hang over the ball.  The situation was rare but as with most things at a country club it only takes one complaint from the right person to get action.  At Chevy Chase in Md. we did the first set cut in 1985 with a lowered 72" deck mower at 1.5".  It made a terrible mess.  Later we had to convert one of our two National 72" mowers by lowering it down. After that we had a dedicated mower for the step cut,  walkways came along about 5 years after that.

[Bill Brightly]

Because I believe the dumbest question is the one you never ask... are we talking about the one yard strip of very short rough along the edge of many fairways on parkland courses in the US? Or are we talking about graduated rough like they do for US Opens?

[Tony_Muldoon]

I disagree with what I percieve to be the the sentiments expressed so far.  I like and intermdediate cut, particularly on Liks courses.

On a links course that Intermediate strip is most important. When it's F&F or windy, it helps make the course palyable and reduces time looking for balls, particularly on dog legs.   I've just been watching the coverage of the Friday from Muirfield last year. The scoring was VERY high and would have been much higher still if about 15% of second shots hadn't been played from that layer.


One of the nastier experiences I had was at The European Club where there was nothing seperating the short stuff from the jungle.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Because I believe the dumbest question is the one you never ask... are we talking about the one yard strip of very short rough along the edge of many fairways on parkland courses in the US? Or are we talking about graduated rough like they do for US Opens?

Yes. That's the area.  On my course it adds up to about 5 acres of area.  Because we use ryegrass in the intermediate / set cut we need to have a dedicated application program for this strip.  Primarily for PGR's and Gray Leafspot control.  To maintain a quality step cut you need a dedicated mower and dedicated programs.  I know some courses that resod this area every two years.  

[Niall C]

I disagree with what I percieve to be the the sentiments expressed so far.  I like and intermdediate cut, particularly on Liks courses.

On a links course that Intermediate strip is most important. When it's F&F or windy, it helps make the course palyable and reduces time looking for balls, particularly on dog legs.   I've just been watching the coverage of the Friday from Muirfield last year. The scoring was VERY high and would have been much higher still if about 15% of second shots hadn't been played from that layer.


One of the nastier experiences I had was at The European Club where there was nothing seperating the short stuff from the jungle.

Tony

I agree with that also. Playing from the semi on a links or indeed on some inland courses can give you an easier shot, depending on what shot is called for and it actually pays to be off the fairway. For instance a lie in the semi on a links might be better for hitting a fairway wood as it allows for the flyer and getting run as sometimes hitting off a tight lie encourages a steeper angle on the downswing and hence more spin. Either way it adds to the variety and gives the golfer something to think about.

Niall

[Jeff_Brauer]

Not sure, but it had to have come about via the USGA and US Open or at least the PGA tour, to promote "proportional punishment."  It seemed like a logical evolution - as fairways got narrower to reduce maintenance costs, was it "fair" to hit a formerly decent tee shot that used to find fairway and find it in 3" rough". So they came back with an intermediate strip that was less expensive to maintain than fw (theoretically) and less punishing than rough.

I have no real problem with it, although most courses ought to just mow their rough down to 1.5-2" rather than 3-4", if they don't already.  Isn't all the punishment you really need a slight loss of spin and distance control?

I tried to experiment with variable width intermediate cuts, based on a strong Art Hills hole I saw once.  Seems like, if in addition to your key fairway bunker, the step cut was 2 yards wide on the desired side of the fw, but 10 yards wide on the safe side, it might affect how you decided to play your tee shot.

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