Davis Love's decision on #18!

[JakaB]

Huck,

If you had to choose between Paul McCartney and MJ...would the fact that the ex-Beetle sleeps with a peg leg chick seal the deal.....that has to be cool..

[A.G._Crockett]

Huck,

If you had to choose between Paul McCartney and MJ...would the fact that the ex-Beetle sleeps with a peg leg chick seal the deal.....that has to be cool..

I'm laughing out loud in Georgia...

[THuckaby2]

 

LOL here as well.

And yes, that would add to the coolness.  And in addition to the very cool leglessness, the woman is rather hot from what I recall.

 

[TEPaul]

Rich:

Your post #73 is a very good one and most appropriate at that point in this thread. There comes a time in a thread like this when something like that (your excellent questions) should be pinned down simply so the contributors on here won't be all over the place on that specifiic subject. There's a big difference, in my opinion, in the world of golf rules and golf rules application between the way it is and should be and the way too many golfer's think it should be (but isn't). This subject and situation with Love very well may fall somewhere in the cracks (of understanding) of the actual Rules of Golf between the technical way things are and have become (rules application and decisions on-course) and the fundamental spirit behind the Rules of Golf (their Principles, if you will)!

Your post asks excellent and appropriate questions and I certainly do have some thoughts on those questions. But first, allow me to do a bit of rules research on this subject.

[THuckaby2]

TEP:  what, you don't enjoy the speculation on why I don't like Davis Love?

Just remember: you asked.

And also, none of this - including your initial post starting this topic - has anything to do with golf course architecture.

Feistily,

TH
 

ps - I like Rich's question also, and look forward to your answer.  For some reason this arcane rules stuff does interest me.

[TEPaul]

"TEP:  what, you don't enjoy the speculation on why I don't like Davis Love?"

TomH:

Not at all---I'm very much enjoying the speculation on why you don't like Davis Love. I very much enjoy seeing someone go through deep and revelatory self-analysis, aided by a number of tough and painful questions from your fellow GOLFCLUBATLAS.com contributors and brethren!  

This apparently all boils down to a deep-seated "geek", "dweeb" or  “goober” complex on your part going way back to when little Tom Huckaby was just barely out of diapers. There’s clearly much family and peer dynamics going on here you’ve never been able to come to terms with. Now’s your chance and I’m enjoying all this immensely, not the least reason being you will be a better man for it someday (who knows we may even be able to make it possible for you to pick up 40-50 yards on your tee shots through this type of psychological cleansing!).

One thing is certain, though, if you could stand next to Davis Love and watch him hit a golf ball, there’s little question in my mind your “geek”, “dweeb” and “goober” opinion of him would change immensely and instantly and forever.

I’m very hopeful for you TomH! Redanman is another question and another problem altogether. His complexes, clearly reflected in his hatred of Davis Love 3rd, not to mention Tiger Woods just might cast new meaning on the term “deep-seated’! I’ll do my very best to help you both but if I’m unable I’m afraid these matters may need the attentions of one Dr Katz!

[THuckaby2]

TEP:

Great stuff.  Well done.  

Just one problem with the substance.  I HAVE stood next to DLIII and watched him hit the ball - in fact several times - each at the AT&T at Pebble Beach.  I came away very impressed with him as a golfer.  But I also came away with very great confirmation of my assessment of him as a geek and a dork and a dweeb.

But you're right, it likely is just me!

 

[rgkeller]

It is a sad commentary on the state of professional golf that so much praise is heaped on Davis Love III for following the rules of golf.

[TEPaul]

I believe I agree with you rg. It does appear to be a rather sad commentary on the state of professional golf. It may be a bit of a sad commentary as well on the state of the application these days of the Rules of Golf. It may not even be a sad commentary of the state of professional golfers to follow the rules of golf but to understand the fundamental reasoning and principles (re "spirit") behind the Rules of Golf! It probably shouldn't be lost on any of us that it appeared perhaps no one on that scene, including a number of high level professional golfers and professional golf commentators (formerly top-flight professional golfers!) seemed to understand in the slightest what Love was actually doing or why!

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom Huckaby,

As a very young man, like you, I could look upon golfers as dweebs, dorks (words I had never heard of by the way) or poufters. Coming from playing contact sports with balls, bats and gloves it seemed a sissy sort of passtime, until I saw one of the misfits, with a languid stroke hit a small white ball a mile. I tried, failed miserably to get halfway to his ball and realized that he wasn't such a dork after all.

This could be the same with you if you tried to emulate Mr. Love. He may walk as though he has a carrot up his fundamental orifice, but you must admit he has a much better athlectic bearing than your good self.

DL111 gives a clinic at MPCC every year for The Boys and Girls Club of the Monterey Penisula prior to the AT&T. Seeing the arc and length of his shots sure doesn't look dorky to me. He also set up a scholarship program out here for the kids. All in all he is a wonderful young man...... who misses too many short putts in the big ones.

[THuckaby2]

Bob:

I was wondering if you would see this, and kinda hoping you wouldn't.  I am suitably chastised.  I am REALLY chastised by your assessment that DLIII has a more athletic bearing that me.  Of course it's true, but the truth never hurt more.

 

BTW, I have no doubt DLIII is a good egg - you have mentioned his involvement in your Boys & Girls Club event before and that alone puts him on the good side.  This recent rules issue is just more on the positive side.

But remember how it goes with shit-giving amongst friends... I'd sooner die than admit anything good about my friend's hero.  God I hope HE never reads this here....

TH

[Lou_Duran]

I admire DL III's world-class ability to hit the ball.  His handling of the family crisis involving the malfeasance and suicide of his brother-in-law was most honorable and reaffirming of what is good.  No doubt, he is a fine family man and individual.

That so much has been made of his decision to play the ball as it lies in conformance with the rules, perhaps it would all have been a mere footnote or example in a rules segment had the US team played to its potential.  There were not many good things to say about how the US team went about the matches.  

Among serious golfers, there is nothing special about abiding by the rules.  That is the expectation, and I have seen any number of examples of that in regular Sunday play.  Perhaps it is a phenomenom for the media where a story regardless of its substance is the key.

If one believes that to whom much is given, much is expected, Davis's career lacks considerable luster.  In my opinion, he exemplifies what is wrong with pro golf in the US- that complacency and comfort has been engendered by the vast sums of prize, appearance, and endorsement money.  The European players seem to be more into the matches, more cognizant and appreciative of the fans, and much closer together than their US counterparts.  Sergio's Nathaniel Crosby like behavior notwithstanding, who would you rather team up with if your life depended on it, him or Davis?  I would also wager that Sergio would not have taken a drop on 18 either, though perhaps he may have been more conflicted.  

[THuckaby2]

Sergio's Nathaniel Crosby like behavior notwithstanding, who would you rather team up with if your life depended on it, him or Davis?  I would also wager that Sergio would not have taken a drop on 18 either, though perhaps he may have been more conflicted.  

That's a hell of a good question, Lou - and also came up in discussions with my buddies.  I postulated that Sergio just may well be the perfect partner - damn good player (but that's a given amongst these guys) but also just seems to have the knack for putting his partners at ease, and thus bringing out their best.  Did you notice all the smiling and laughing going on along with the emotional outbursts?  Hell, it seems like you just can't help but LIKE the guy if he's your partner, and that really does have to help.

I can also see why he puts off opponents also though... but hell, that might just help you win a hole or two also.  If the opponents are thinking about how a guy is pissing them off, they can't be as focused on their own games.

Of course I could also be all wet about all of this.

As for whether Sergio would have taken the drop that DLIII did not, I'm with you 100%.  He might have CONSIDERED it, but he wouldn't have done it.

I used to really dislike Sergio also... just out of pro-American sentiment and distaste for how painfully slow he used to be.  But he really has won me over, to the extent that I now root for him big-time.

[ASIDE TO TOM PAUL - sorry once again for taking this on a tangent away from the rules discussion.  But this is such an interesting question, I felt it had to be addressed.  It might be worth a separate thread.  We'll see if anyone else finds this interesting.  I sure do.]

TH

[A.G._Crockett]

Lou Duran,
That's a pretty tough post!  Love has missed some crucial short putts, as Bob Huntley says, and they could have made his career much different.  I don't think that is a sign of complacency, though.  In his case, I think that he has cared too much, if anything.

I also find it interesting that you compare him to Garcia, who is in the process of amassing a Ryder Cup record that may be unsurpassed; that's a tough standard in itself.  To go further and downgrade Love's actions because of what you think Garcia MIGHT have done in the same circumstance is a much tougher standard in that it has NO basis in reality!  Who could meet that measure?

[TEPaul]

Bob Huntley said to Tom Huckaby;

"This could be the same with you if you tried to emulate Mr. Love. He may walk as though he has a carrot up his fundamental orifice, but you must admit he has a much better athlectic bearing than your good self."

BobH, my good man, have you any idea what that remark may have done or may do to Thomas Clorox Huckaby? The poor fellow apparently has a deep-seated and potentially debilitating "geek", "dweeb" or "goober" complex and unfortunately Davis Love's look, walk, facial expression and most everything else about him represents what Tom Huckably has apparently always felt was God's finest hour in the creation of the "geek", "dweeb" and "goober". Now you're telling Huckaby, a man who's apparently your friend that Love's general physiognomy is far more athletic than Huckaby's??

This will positively kill Huckaby and set his self-image back to Square One (which very well may be that time when he first tactilely became aware of this own bodily parts----apparently to his never ending horror, I might add). Huckaby may now not be able to hit a drive further than Love can hit a long lag putt. Are you prepared to take the consequences for what you may have done to Huckaby with that remark?

I was trying to help Huckably but, you, his friend, must try to help me help him! That remark is definitely not the way to do that!

[TEPaul]

BobH:

I've always been aware that Tom Huckaby is capable of taking a thread to the outside edge of the spectrum of "off topic" but this is ridiculous. We were talking about an honorable thing that Love did golf rules-wise in the Ryder Cup Matches and Huckaby has single-handedly taken this subject, in less than a page, into the realm of geeks and goobers and the horrifying and frightening depths of "dweeb complexes".

[THuckaby2]

BobH:

I've always been aware that Tom Huckaby is capable of taking a thread to the outside edge of the spectrum of "off topic" but this is ridiculous. We were talking about an honorable thing that Love did golf rules-wise in the Ryder Cup Matches and Huckaby has single-handedly taken this subject, in less than a page, into the realm of geeks and goobers and the horrifying and frightening depths of "dweeb complexes".

I do believe this is a new low, even for me.  Sorry man.  But again, hey, you asked WHY I disliked the goober.  You could have just let my comment be - I even gave the dork full credit for his honorable actions at the Ryder Cup - but you had to go and ask why.

So blame thyself, oh great one.

 

As for my self-image, not to worry.  I've sure been called worse things than less athletic than Dweeby Love.  I'll live.  Remember my name rhymes with a lot of unflattering things.

Now back to your very interesting - but not related to golf course architecture in any way - topic.

 

BTW, you know what's even better than being taken to task by Mr. Huntley here?  Having it happen in person.  The civility by which the admonitions are rendered just underscore one's screwing up.  I highly recommend it, for self-reflection.

 

[Lou_Duran]

AGC,

I don't mean to be too tough on Davis.  Perhaps comfort and complaceny have nothing to do with it.  Maybe the issue is confidence and mental toughness.  The bottom line is that his pedigree, physical prowess and ability to hit the ball appear to exceed his accomplishments.  Putting may be part of it, but I've seen him make all sorts of putts at times which leads me to believe that it is not a mechanical or technical issue.

I am not a psychiatrist, and God knows that Davis is exponetially better and tougher than me.  But among his peers- world class players competing in the majors and cups- does he pass mustard?  Yes, he is a wonderful player and a good sport.  We should expect the latter with little discussion, and hope that he reaches his potential in the former.

I will say that if I saw either Davis or Sergio at a bar, based on their demeanor on the course, I would feel uncomfortable encroaching on Davis's space, but would gladly buy Sergio a beer.  Like Seve, there is an intangible with Sergio that creates infectious excitement.  Of course, that is much easier done when playing well, but it sure was lacking in most of our leading boys.  Is making a big deal about Davis following the rules just a clear example of damnation by benign praise?  

[Dennis_Harwood]

Jeff -

I don't have my tape anymore, but my recollection of the incident is that he purposely hit the shot like that out of spite towards the official. I could certainly be wrong on that recollection, though.

That is correct-- He did it to show up the official, and talking with an official who was there they thought the shot was crazy because he basically was required to aim out of bounds to hit that shot with that stance (while a "normal stance" would have given him the same shot without the risk)--

[Mike Benham]

As for whether Sergio would have taken the drop that DLIII did not, I'm with you 100%.  He might have CONSIDERED it, but he wouldn't have done it.

I wonder if Seve would have argued for relief?  

Of course, one could argue that he wouldn't have been that close to the fairway ...

Or that he is the one golfer that could have a hit a high, cutting, draw, fade to that hole location, talking to the ball in spanish all along ...

[THuckaby2]

WHOA!  Those are great questions... Of course I have no doubt that Seve always was honorable with the rules, certain past Ryder Cup sneezes and other noises notwithstanding... But I wonder if competition might exceed honor for him there, and you're right, if he just might think of that as the "normal" shot and thus justifiably take relief... I mean justifiably in that he could take it with full respect for intent...

VERY interesting questions.  Who knows.

And this takes nothing away from Pouffter Love, btw.

 

[Mike_M]

But remember how it goes with shit-giving amongst friends... I'd sooner die than admit anything good about my friend's hero.  God I hope HE never reads this here....

TH

Hope does not spring eternal.  So are sooo busted, my friend !

 

[THuckaby2]

God freakin' dammit.

OK, you have to tell me - who ratted me out?

Oh well, at least this got you to post here.

 

[Mike_M]

It's your own fault for telling me about this board years ago.  No one to blame but yourself.

I don't read everything here, maybe 20% of the threads.  And you know that a DLIII topic will definately get my attention.

Next time, go after him in a "Why I love links golf" thread, you're probably safe from my eyes there.  

[mikes1160]

It's a shame DL III can't invite Mr. Huckaby to ride on the back of his chopper as they go off for the first day of turkey hunting season - I think the dweeb remarks would end forever right then and there.